Grima crying??? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Encaitare · 07-25-2004, 12:07 PM

While I don't think that he was necessarily sorry, I do think he was frightened a bit by what he had allowed to happen. Not repentant, but kinda like, "Oh crap! This is getting serious!" as Silmiel of Imladris and HC suggested. Yes, I am a Grima-lover and -pitier, because this is a point of no return for him. I like to think that he's crying because it seems Eowyn is going to die. He doesn't care a pin for anyone else in Rohan, but he does care for her. Whether this is really the reason or not, I don't know.

Note to Knight of Gondor: I don't think that he's completely without good anymore. He did say in the Shire how Saruman made him kill Lotho, and we can safely assume (in fact, Saruman says, "Yes, you always do what Sharkey tells you, don't you, Worm?") that he's just a minion of the wizard, too weak to resist him.

I also agree with Morima. Even though we don't know a lot about Grima's past, it seems that he had a really lousy life. I like the idea that Eowyn saw him as a child and in her innocence was kind to him, but then things changed between them as he became a dark agent and more than a tad lusty. Or loving. Or whatever it is in their twisted little relationship.

Mariska makes a great point, but I again, I don't consider him pure evil. A bad dude, certainly, but not wholly evil.

yay for adding to ancient threads!

Lady Gamgee · 07-25-2004, 08:28 PM

I find Grima very disturbing. I noticed the tear too ... and although I feel he felt some regret, I think he was scared of the entire situation and what was happening. I believe at that moment he realized the seriousness of the situation & in some way wished he hadn't been a puppet of Saruman's. I pity him to some extent, and believe he had some kind of twisted love for Eowyn, but he didn't have to allow Saruman to get that kind of hold on him. Yes, Saruman is very persuasive & intimidating, and maybe Grima felt he had no choice. But he did have a choice ... and it was his own lack of courage that made him fall under Saruman's "spell."

Kitanna · 07-28-2004, 10:14 PM

I saw that tear when I first watched TTT way back in the theater. I always figured it was because Grima realized just how strong and destructive Saruman really was and for a moment he felt remorse. I mean in the book Gandalf says at one point Grima wasn't always so evil and his council to Theoden wasn't always corrupt. So I think for one brief moment Grima had his real human emotion surface.

Morsul the Dark · 07-29-2004, 12:38 AM

I think it was the beggining of a mental breakdown he did not regret betraying Rohan but he did not want to destroy it maybe rule it but not destroy it He relized he was in far deeper than he had known and that was what he regretted

07-29-2004, 07:27 PM

I have been confused by Grima crying, there was an article in the Dominion Post (Newspaper of Middle Earth) where Brad Douriff said he played Grima in that scene as suddenly realising his actions would result in the destruction of most of the surviving humans and lead to the victory of Saruman, a last vestage of his humanity and sorrow for what he had just done and what would happen.

Then later I read / heard on the EE that this was joy at a job well done and Grima was in awe of the massive army.

IT seems as if there are several stories out there, each contradicting the other, possibly to inspire debate or just to screw with the minds of people like us!

The Only Real Estel · 07-29-2004, 08:11 PM

I think that Grima was crying because he never fully realized what he'd done. He may have been thinking that he was in it for Eowyn & hadn't paid much attention to anything else. Now all of a sudden he sees an army of 10,000 Uruk-Hai that are going to wipe out every sign of life in Rohan (other than Eowyn, who he's probably not thinking much about at this point). Every man, woman, child-even every hut, home, & hall-I don't think he ever quite realized the ramifications of his role in all this. Now he suddenly sees that he's mostly responsible for the slaughter of thousands of people. He's in shock & disbelief, feeling a rare moment of sorrow over what he's done, & he sheds a tear of remorse over the horrible deaths that he's condemned Rohan to.

Encaitare · 07-29-2004, 08:46 PM

Very well said. I agree; it's a lot for one man to bear.

07-25-2004, 08:28 PM	#2
Lady Gamgee Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The Shire Posts: 30	I find Grima very disturbing. I noticed the tear too ... and although I feel he felt some regret, I think he was scared of the entire situation and what was happening. I believe at that moment he realized the seriousness of the situation & in some way wished he hadn't been a puppet of Saruman's. I pity him to some extent, and believe he had some kind of twisted love for Eowyn, but he didn't have to allow Saruman to get that kind of hold on him. Yes, Saruman is very persuasive & intimidating, and maybe Grima felt he had no choice. But he did have a choice ... and it was his own lack of courage that made him fall under Saruman's "spell." __________________ "....though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater." ~~ Haldir

07-28-2004, 10:14 PM	#3
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	I saw that tear when I first watched TTT way back in the theater. I always figured it was because Grima realized just how strong and destructive Saruman really was and for a moment he felt remorse. I mean in the book Gandalf says at one point Grima wasn't always so evil and his council to Theoden wasn't always corrupt. So I think for one brief moment Grima had his real human emotion surface. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

07-29-2004, 12:38 AM	#4
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	I think it was the beggining of a mental breakdown he did not regret betraying Rohan but he did not want to destroy it maybe rule it but not destroy it He relized he was in far deeper than he had known and that was what he regretted __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

07-29-2004, 08:11 PM	#6
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	my theory I think that Grima was crying because he never fully realized what he'd done. He may have been thinking that he was in it for Eowyn & hadn't paid much attention to anything else. Now all of a sudden he sees an army of 10,000 Uruk-Hai that are going to wipe out every sign of life in Rohan (other than Eowyn, who he's probably not thinking much about at this point). Every man, woman, child-even every hut, home, & hall-I don't think he ever quite realized the ramifications of his role in all this. Now he suddenly sees that he's mostly responsible for the slaughter of thousands of people. He's in shock & disbelief, feeling a rare moment of sorrow over what he's done, & he sheds a tear of remorse over the horrible deaths that he's condemned Rohan to.

07-25-2004, 12:07 PM	#1
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	While I don't think that he was necessarily sorry, I do think he was frightened a bit by what he had allowed to happen. Not repentant, but kinda like, "Oh crap! This is getting serious!" as Silmiel of Imladris and HC suggested. Yes, I am a Grima-lover and -pitier, because this is a point of no return for him. I like to think that he's crying because it seems Eowyn is going to die. He doesn't care a pin for anyone else in Rohan, but he does care for her. Whether this is really the reason or not, I don't know. Note to Knight of Gondor: I don't think that he's completely without good anymore. He did say in the Shire how Saruman made him kill Lotho, and we can safely assume (in fact, Saruman says, "Yes, you always do what Sharkey tells you, don't you, Worm?") that he's just a minion of the wizard, too weak to resist him. I also agree with Morima. Even though we don't know a lot about Grima's past, it seems that he had a really lousy life. I like the idea that Eowyn saw him as a child and in her innocence was kind to him, but then things changed between them as he became a dark agent and more than a tad lusty. Or loving. Or whatever it is in their twisted little relationship. Mariska makes a great point, but I again, I don't consider him pure evil. A bad dude, certainly, but not wholly evil. yay for adding to ancient threads!

07-29-2004, 07:27 PM	#5
shia'tan Guest Posts: n/a	I have been confused by Grima crying, there was an article in the Dominion Post (Newspaper of Middle Earth) where Brad Douriff said he played Grima in that scene as suddenly realising his actions would result in the destruction of most of the surviving humans and lead to the victory of Saruman, a last vestage of his humanity and sorrow for what he had just done and what would happen. Then later I read / heard on the EE that this was joy at a job well done and Grima was in awe of the massive army. IT seems as if there are several stories out there, each contradicting the other, possibly to inspire debate or just to screw with the minds of people like us!

07-29-2004, 08:46 PM	#7
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Very well said. I agree; it's a lot for one man to bear.