Tolkien love stories - sources - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Child of the 7th Age · 01-07-2004, 08:50 AM

Mithadan,

Running out the door to work....

This is fascinating. I had never thought of anything like this. But I think you may be on to something.

Actually, there's another precendent for Tolkien's language echoing the Bible. In this case it's the Psalms:

Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Arnor,
For the Realm of Sauron is ended forever,
And the Dark Tower is thrown down.

Sing and rejoice, ye people of the Tower of Guard,
for your watch hath not been in vain,
and the Black Gate is broken,
and your King hath passed through,
and he is victorious.

Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your king shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Words like "ye' and "hath" connect the passage with the Authorised Version of the Bible which was widely known to readers in Tolkien's Day. "Sing and rejoice" echoes Psalm 33, Rejoice in the Lord. The entire poem is reminiscent of Psalm 24, "Lift up your head, O ye gates, and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors, for the King of glory shall come in."

Shippey talks about this in Road to Middle-earth. He pointed out that the poem could have a double meaning drawn from the Bible. The statement about the Black Gates being broken "could very easily apply to Death and Hell (Matthew xvi, 18, 'and the gates of hell shall not prevail) and that the reference to King Aragorn could be a veiled reference to "Christ and the second coming."

Whether or not you buy Shippey's interpretation on that, the biblical basis for the poem is obvious. So, if Tolkien could use the Psalms for the basis of a poem in LotR, why couldn't he also use the Song of Songs for describing the relationship of Bombadil and Goldberry? He obviously liked to "play little games" on us like this with veiled references to biblical/religious events.

Just look at the date of Sauron's fall-- March 25. According to Anglo-Saxon belief as well as European popular tradition, 25 March is the date of the Crucifixion, but also of the Annunciation and the last date of Creation. In a way, Tolkien was presenting his eucatastrophe as a forerunner or type of the "greater" one of Christian myth. (These words are Shippey's, not mine.)

So perhaps Tom and Goldberry are "forerunners" of the famous biblical lovers as well? I wouldn't put it past him!

01-07-2004, 08:50 AM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Mithadan, Running out the door to work.... This is fascinating. I had never thought of anything like this. But I think you may be on to something. Actually, there's another precendent for Tolkien's language echoing the Bible. In this case it's the Psalms: Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Arnor, For the Realm of Sauron is ended forever, And the Dark Tower is thrown down. Sing and rejoice, ye people of the Tower of Guard, for your watch hath not been in vain, and the Black Gate is broken, and your King hath passed through, and he is victorious. Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West, for your king shall come again, and he shall dwell among you all the days of your life. Words like "ye' and "hath" connect the passage with the Authorised Version of the Bible which was widely known to readers in Tolkien's Day. "Sing and rejoice" echoes Psalm 33, Rejoice in the Lord. The entire poem is reminiscent of Psalm 24, "Lift up your head, O ye gates, and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors, for the King of glory shall come in." Shippey talks about this in Road to Middle-earth. He pointed out that the poem could have a double meaning drawn from the Bible. The statement about the Black Gates being broken "could very easily apply to Death and Hell (Matthew xvi, 18, 'and the gates of hell shall not prevail) and that the reference to King Aragorn could be a veiled reference to "Christ and the second coming." Whether or not you buy Shippey's interpretation on that, the biblical basis for the poem is obvious. So, if Tolkien could use the Psalms for the basis of a poem in LotR, why couldn't he also use the Song of Songs for describing the relationship of Bombadil and Goldberry? He obviously liked to "play little games" on us like this with veiled references to biblical/religious events. Just look at the date of Sauron's fall-- March 25. According to Anglo-Saxon belief as well as European popular tradition, 25 March is the date of the Crucifixion, but also of the Annunciation and the last date of Creation. In a way, Tolkien was presenting his eucatastrophe as a forerunner or type of the "greater" one of Christian myth. (These words are Shippey's, not mine.) So perhaps Tom and Goldberry are "forerunners" of the famous biblical lovers as well? I wouldn't put it past him! __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.