The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 07-21-2004, 02:36 AM   #23
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuor
is it possible to negate an oath by appealing to the oath's witness(es)?
It seems to me that in Middle earth once an oath is sworn it will work through. Problem then arises if you swear to do something which is logically or physically impossible. Effectively feanor & his sons swore (without realising it) an oath which bound them to do something which they could not possibly do.

Could the witnesses - including the 'ultimate' witness - Illuvatar - release them? Its almost as if a 'force of nature' is invoked at the oath taking, which will work through willy-nilly.

This perhaps brings in the 'power of words' - I'm, thinking of Finrod's contest with Sauron, which is a n incident really of words shaping reality - Finrod attempts to shape 'reality', or Sauron's perception of it, by his song. But Sauron's words are more powerful, & Finrod's attempt at reality manipulation fails. Arda comes into being at Eru's word - 'Ea!' 'Let these things be'. Could it be the case that an oath is something that works in a similar way, the oath taker is saying they will change the world, make it different, & so, invoke this 'force'.

Probably none of that makes any sense. I'm fumbling to make sense of the nature of oaths in Middle earth, because the more I think about them the stranger they seem. They seem 'magical', involving this 'power' which doesn't have its source in the individuals who swear them. That power seems to give strength to the oath takers, help them achieve their goal, but if they forswear the oath it turns on them, & they suffer till they do what they swore to do, or die trying. And the Sons of Feanor simply put themselves in a situation they couldn't get out of. Could Eru have set the oath aside? I don't know - He was called as a witness to it - it wasn't sworn to Him, & he didn't recieve the oath.

Of course, He was never asked to set it aside, so we can never know whether he would have done so.

One thing occurs in the light of the recently revived 'Curses!' thread - is a curse the same thing as an oath, does it work differently? Both are down to the power of words, or rather both are a case of words calling up a 'power', & both are attempts to shape reality, make it different.

Last edited by davem; 07-21-2004 at 02:41 AM.
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:39 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.