LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 05 - A Conspiracy Unmasked

[Firefoot]

the hobbits are being very hobbitty, but unlike the Party with which the book began, it all seems so much more fragile here.

Exactly! It is something of a pretense over the darker dangers and undercurrents which they know are there but do not quite want to acknowledge yet. It brings to mind Merry's words in the Houses of Healing (not to stray too much from the chapter...): "But it is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place." It is the way of hobbits to talk lightly of such things. Even though they fully (or not so fully) understand the dangers they face, they do not speak of them in deep dark ways.

[The Saucepan Man]

I shall finish the chapter and return in more appropriate form, but I am not quite sure just what the great value is of this chapter. The bathtime hijinks reminded me of davem's observations about the writing process for earlier chapters and the silliness over upper stories. (Bêthberry)

I don't have much to say about this chapter since there wasn't an exorbinate amount going on. I know I am going to get it for this, but I never like this chapter and ones similar for I can't help thinking that it all centers around sitting down and eating, again! (Silmiel of Imladris)

I feel that I have to make an effort to defend this Chapter as it is one of my favourites. Bilbo aside, Merry and Pippin are the characters that I am most fond of (yes, I am a Hobbit at heart ) and I have always been rather taken by the manner in which they join Frodo's Quest. Forget Arwen stealing Glorfindel's horse, Elves at Helm's Deep and "evil" Faramir. The loss of this chapter was one of the changes made in the film that I mourned the most. Merry and Pippin didn't accompany Frodo and Sam because they randomly ran into them in Farmer Maggot's field. They did so out of friendship, knowing that peril lay ahead of them (albeit not the full extent of it).

To my mind, Esty hit the nail on the head in the extract that she quoted at the outset of this thread. I will quote it here in full because I like it so much:

You can trust us to stick to you through thick and thin – to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours – closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo. Anyway: there it is. We know of what Gandalf has told you. We know a god deal about the Ring. We are horribly afraid – but we are coming with you; or following you like hounds. (emphasis added)

For me, this chapter is all about friendship. The light-hearted banter and gentle teasing highlights the closeness of these friends (and, for a time, masks their fear and anticipation, as Firefoot has pointed out), but it is the determination of Merry and Pippin to accompany Frodo that really shows the bond between them. Of course, they cannot imagine the full extent of the danger which lies ahead, but they know just about as much as Frodo does and yet they have resolved to stick with him "through thick and thin". That is the measure of their friendship. Even Fatty shows his committment to the cause by agreeing to stay behind at Crickhollow, knowing that these fearsome Black Riders will be turning up sooner or later.

Another passage struck me in this context:

"Good! That's settled. Three cheers for Captain Frodo and company!" they shouted; and they danced round him. Merry and Pippin began a song, which they had apparently got ready for the occasion.

Reading it now, this passage very much puts me in mind of the camaraderie of young soldiers celebrating excitedly together after volunteering for service in the Great War - knowing that they are likely to face danger, but little imaging the full horror of it. I wonder if this is a scene from Tolkien's own experience.

Just one further point to add for the time being:

But at Crickhollow there is no authority figure, save Frodo (and Merry, I suppose). The danger has not really escalated all that much since the first encounter with a Black Rider. But the protection offered by the safe houses along the way has diminished. (Aiwendil)

The reduced protection that Crickhollow offers is also suggested by the following passage:

Their land was originally unprotected from the East; but on that side they had built a hedge: the High Hay ... But, of course, it was not a complete protection. The Forest drew close to the hedge in many places. the Bucklanders kept their doors locked after dark, and that also was not usual in the Shire.

This adds to the dark undertones in this chapter and emphasises that the Hobbits really are now on the edge of "friendly territory". As indeed do Fredegar's ominous comments about the Old Forest and Merry's curious (at least for readers who have not yet read further) comment about the trees being "sleepy and fairly quiet" during the daylight hours.

[Nurumaiel]

Nasssty me, posting on this thread when I'm just barely through Chapter I, but all the same:

...the hobbits are being very hobbitty, but unlike the Party with which the book began, it all seems so much more fragile here.

This is very full of truth. The baths, and the hobbity dialogue, etc. all are entirely in character for a hobbit, yet there is a darkness present. As a child hearing this chapter I can recall moving closer to my brothers and father; to this day I don't like to read it unless others are present. The tones are light and cheery but it seems to add to the sinister aspects. There is a danger present, and it seems to be lurking in every shadow. It's frightening to sit and read this chapter, for even when you know what the danger is, there is still a mystery about it. A feeling of sadness, too, conquers me as I read the attempt of the hobbits to be light and humourous when they are vaguely aware of what is coming up in and disappearing from their lives.

At the moment I am sitting in a room full of distant cheeriness myself, with only a dim light and long creeping shadows stretching out towards me, and so I couldn't resist writing how I feel about this particular aspect of the story. Now I will go away and come back after I have read the chapter. Wicked me!

[Fingolfin II]

Fordim said:

In this chapter we have precisely the same situation – with the hobbits inside singing their bath songs and eating mushrooms, and the Nazgûl on the outside, drawn by the power of the Ring – but it all feels so very different, perhaps even wrong. The hobbits (and the reader) have now learned to see their world the way others have for centuries (the Elves, Gandalf, the Rangers); they are aware of the danger and the darkness, and their hobbitty ways are somehow a bit sillier than they were formerly.

I definately agree that the hobbits are becoming more aware of the danger that they are faced with and are already starting to show signs of 'growing up' by pledging their faith to Frodo, even though they know it won't be an adventure like Bilbo's, but a dark quest, where they'll be "flying from danger to danger".

What really strikes me here is that they accept this, without knowing the full dangers of the Nazgul and only having a vague idea of the strength of Mordor. They become aware of the danger associated with Sauron's servants, but I think that this is only really evident after the Weathertop incident and that this chapter (along with the previous one) and their gradual recognition of who and what the Nazgul are and what they are capable of is just a build up to their meeting with Aragorn and their confrontation with the Nazgul on Weathertop, where they experience the terror of the Nazgul up close when the Witch King stabs Frodo and even before, in Bree.

Nurumaiel said:

There is a danger present, and it seems to be lurking in every shadow. It's frightening to sit and read this chapter, for even when you know what the danger is, there is still a mystery about it.

That's exactly the way I feel about this chapter! As the companions on the quest begin to unfold here, so do the obstacles toward the target begin to become more potent and sinister, we still don't know what exactly they are, and how dangerous they could be. Only later do we find out that they are the Ringwraiths, Sauron's deadliest servants. However, this ignorance of their full, frightening, selves is actually quite important, because if Frodo and his company knew who they were, they might not have had the courage to try and reach Bree and the quest could have failed then and there. To summarise it, I think that this chapter is a brilliant taste of what's going to happen next and gives us (as I said in a different thread) "a hint of darker things to come".

[davem]

What is it about the way Buckland is presented in the book? They're queer folk in Buckland, we're told. They live on the wrong side of the 'elvish' river - between the elvish waters & the Old Forest, which has an evil reputation. Its a place of transition, a 'border', a crossing place - neither part of the Shire proper, nor part of the world beyond. Its 'betwixt & between'. In Celtic myth, rivers, fords, crossroads, & suchlike places were believed to be places where the 'worlds' met - this world & the Other world, & they were the places where 'adventures' began. Interestingly, checking out the derivation of 'Buckland', an actual British placename, I found that it was originally related to 'puck', a woodland spirit. We're in 'puck'land, on the borders of another, older, stranger world.

The day has begun with Frodo waking from a dreamless sleep at Woodhall, & ends with him having one of the most symbolic & significant dreams he will ever have in the house at Crickhollow. Its 24 hours since his meeting with the Elves, & the whole day from twlight to twilight has begun Frodo's transformation. Its not really surprising that the dream is so powerful.

[Evisse the Blue]

You people are really clever to have such interesting conversations over a chapter, that I have to confess, I didn't find very interesting either. The only things that 'stood out' for me, was Merry's really impressive conspiratiorial and organizational skills (which have already been pointed out); he really acts like a 'parent figure', even to older Frodo, and (can I say so?) like a protector. Somehow, despite the 'danger lurking in every corner' apparent in this chapter, one finds a little comfort that Merry is around. At least that's how I feel.

And doesn't this quote make you feel cosy and warm inside:

A friendly light streamed out. they slipped in quickly and shut themselves and the light inside.

It makes me exhale a sigh of relief and content.
Perhaps that's only true for me, but I always feel like, the closer the danger is, the more comfort I'd find in a shelter. Evil is prawling outside the doors of my cottage, but I am sitting beside the fire with my friends and I plan on enjoying the wonderful meal in front of me, even more if it's the last one. Same as 'you don't appreciate the small joys of life until you're in danger of losing them' - the closer the danger, the higher the appreciation.

!Silly question warning: Why did Gorhendad Oldbuck change his name to Brandybuck? Did he like brandy that much?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Not silly at all, Evisse! Your question got me thinking about the meaning of the word "brand" - "brandy" is based on that word root. In German, "Brand" is a fire or blaze, and alcohols (like brandy) are said to be "burned". I looked up "brand" in the M-W online dictionary and found that the etymology of the word is

Middle English, torch, sword, from Old English; akin to Old English bærnan to burn

Accordingly, the definitions are (very briefly) 1)firebrand; 2)sword; 3)brandmark, trademark, or stigma; 4)make; and 5)branding tool.

Now I'm really starting to wonder - what connection did old Gorhendad have with fire? Do you suppose he was the one who was involved in the Old Forest fire which took place at the Bonfire Glade? I couldn't find any reference to that on the quick...

Additional thoughts: The River involved here is the Brandywine, corrupted from Baranduin (meaning in Sindarin: 'golden-brown river' ). In Fosters's Guide, I found this information:

The original (and genuine) Hobbitish name for the river was Branda-nîn, 'border-water,' which was later corrupted to Bralda-hîm, 'heady ale,' its normal name at the time of the WR.

In that case, perhaps the Brandybucks were named for their location at the border of the Shire.

Now I challenge someone to find a connection between the fire and the border definitions!

[davem]

Originally Posted by Evisse

Silly question warning: Why did Gorhendad Oldbuck change his name to Brandybuck? Did he like brandy that much

In't it just related to the Brandywine River, which was named for its colour (a 'corruption' of Baranduin=brown river)?

Or is Esty right, & the explanation more obscure?

[davem]

Originally Posted by davem

Interestingly, checking out the derivation of 'Buckland', an actual British placename, I found that it was originally related to 'puck', a woodland spirit. We're in 'puck'land, on the borders of another, older, stranger world.

.

Actually, this is probably the wrong derivation - its more likely that Buckland derives from the Anglo-Saxon bocland, or 'book-land', ie land granted to them for which there is a charter/written record.

About this time legend among the Hobbits first becomes history with a reckoning of years. For it was in the one thousand six hundred and first year of the Third Age that the Fallohide brothers, Marcho and Blanco, set out from Bree; and having obtained permission from the high king at Fornost, they crossed the brown river Baranduin with a great following of Hobbits.