Regarding Gríma and Éowyn

[Imladris]

Grima wasn't a weakling. He killed Saruman and Lotho and who knew how many. It has also been found that the most skinny, weakish looking creatures are rather strong (Gollum, for example).

The quote that Lalaith quoted, how Eowyn had a swift stroke, skilled and deadly, refers to her swordsmanship. You can be clever with a blade yet not be able to fight with your fists. Now, I doubt that Eowyn would carry a sword with her at all times, being a woman and all. So, I do believe it possible that Grima could have overcome her if he wanted to rape her.

i know that eowyn's a strong women, mentally/physically... whatever, but that doesn't mean that she could beat Grima, a fairly pathetic example of his race.

in reality, the weakest man can almost always beat the strongest woman (unless they know where to aim ). I'm 5'7", and work outside a lot, with horses etc, so am stronger than average, but a guy quite a bit smaller than me would probably have little difficulty in overpowering me if he put his mind to it.

this has nothing to do with sexism / girl power / pride / strength of mind, whatever.... it's a simple fact of life... guys are stronger. full stop.

on the other hand, i don't know that grima really would rape eowyn. I'd say he was too much of a coward. He'd lose all influence within the kingdom of Rohan if he did, so he probably wouldn't risk.

also, eowyn was the only thing clean or pure within his life, and i don't believe he would let himself dirty something this pure.

[Quirkette]

My goodness, I'm certainly glad everyone's having so much fun casually discussing rape ina LOTR movie forum.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Quirkette, this is a Tolkien discussion forum and, whether it makes you comfortable or not, it is an issue which deserves to be discussed. I would not say that this is overly 'casual'.

Encaitare, you realised why I had to use the shocked smiley. I wasn't being altogether serious about that point, don't worry.

As has already been pointed out, just because Eowyn was skilled with a blade does not mean that she could overpower Grima if he attacked her. This is not evidence against the proposition Grima could rape Eowyn.

[The Saucepan Man]

My goodness, I'm certainly glad everyone's having so much fun casually discussing rape ina LOTR movie forum.

Given its subject matter, we have given some consideration as to this thread's suitability for this forum. Since it raises a valid issue in connection with Tolkien's works (and the films based on them) and the relationship between two of his characters, we have decided that it should continue. However, I would ask all posters to bear in mind that this is a sensitive issue and that it should therefore be approached with sensitivity and maturity.

[symestreem]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

As has already been pointed out, just because Eowyn was skilled with a blade does not mean that she could overpower Grima if he attacked her. This is not evidence against the proposition Grima could rape Eowyn.

I don't know if anyone on this particular thread has ever held, let alone wielded, a sword. I would like to point out that they are- quite- heavy. Holding them takes strength, let alone swinging them around in circles one-handed. Grima, of course, would have been a swordsman at one point, but he had not fought in so long that his sword was rusty. And muscles start to atrophy within six weeks of disuse. Also, I've never ridden, but I assume it gives you strong leg muscles. Grima was said to be a bad horseman, so perhaps he hadn't ridden in a long time, either.
Although, as Imladris pointed out, Grima seems like the type to be horribly strong.

[Pippin Pondlily]

I have not come to a decision on whether I think Grima could rape Eowyn or not but I'd be willing to bet that Eowyn was probably usually armed with some sort of weapon (not a sword but perhaps a dagger of some sort?) and aware of what was around her--especially with Grima in her home.

Perhaps Eowyn has considered this possibility of rape? I'll bet that she was probably somewhat prepared to deal with some sort of attack from Grima. Because she was definitely not naive and if one of us, as a spectator, could come to wonder about Grima's thoughts/motives/etc., is it not possible that she may have as well?

Given this to ponder, if Eowyn had considered this possibility, she would have taken steps to prepare herself for such an attack? Maybe she had told Eomer of her suspicions? I don't know, the whole odds of Grima finding a princess, a shieldmaiden of Rohan alone and vulnerable, especially one like Eowyn, seems a bit unlikely... in the books it truthfully didn't say very much about Grima having great strength, and it definitely touched on Eowyn's a few times no matter what me might assume about either of them ... it does not seem likely that he could accomplish it if he was inclined to try.

I, personally, think rape was beneath Grima so I don't even think he would have attempted it.

- P. Pondlily

[Lhunardawen]

This thread made me realize more how much injustice the movies have made against the characters.

Yes, Grima is not weak. He could overpower Eowyn if he desired to. But I believe he was not in any way interested in getting Eowyn by himself, he was waiting for Rohan to finally fall into the hands of Saruman. Then he could get her, she being his prize of war and a reward for the evil he has sown into Edoras. For the meanwhile, with the battles still being fought, he would be contented "stalking" Eowyn, as Eomer said:

Too long have you watched her under your eyelids and haunted her steps.

I agree with Evisse--there is no love in Grima's heart, only lust.