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Old 07-19-2004, 09:27 PM   #1
Silmiel of Imladris
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Silly me, I read most of this chapter thinking that Merry was with Frodo, Sam, and Pippin when they were traveling to crickhollow until Merry come up to them by the ferry. I haven't read the books in a while so I can't remember how some of this goes. I don't have much to say about this chapter since there wasn't an exorbinate amount going on. I know I am going to get it for this, but I never like this chapter and ones similar for I can't help thinking that it all centers around sitting down and eating, again! A hobbit wouldn't have very much luck with a low carb diet or any diet for that matter.
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Old 07-19-2004, 10:15 PM   #2
Boromir88
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1420! A Pudgy people

Most hobbits were pudgy. Frodo was really only the skinny hobbit and he said he was gaining weight since he hadn't walked in a while. Boyd and Monaghan were too skilly for Merry and Pip, however they did a great job acting.
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Old 07-20-2004, 03:53 AM   #3
Hilde Bracegirdle
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Stress Relief

I think this chapter is less about eating and bath time hi-jinks, than trying to relax among friends for possibly the last time. At this point Frodo’s friends are bringing him comfort physically as well as mentally. And after all who wouldn’t sing at the prospect of a hot bath after two days stomping around being chased by those sinister riders. I know that I have been quite overcome with joy to find a brimming tub of hot water after ‘roughing it’, and probably sounded rather giddy too!

But the points I ponder most are: the dream, the description of where the house at Crickhollow is (it echoes Frodo's internal transition) and Merry’s vast organizational abilities!

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Old 07-20-2004, 12:30 PM   #4
Tuor of Gondolin
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Originally posted by Davem
--------------------------------
"there is something in Unfinished Tales (The Hunt for the Ring) which is a bit puzzling:Quote:
My father nowhere explained the Ringwraiths’ fear of water....Thus of the rider (who was in fact Khamul of Dol Guldur*) seen on the far side of Bucklebury Ferry just after the hobbits had crossed it is said that ‘ he was well aware that the Ring had crossed the river; but the river was a barrier to his sense of movement’, & that the Nazgul would not touch the ‘elvish’ waters of Baranduin"
----------------------------------

If I could make a brief comment here, my first in the chapters discussion,
I've always been curious about CT's observation above, it seems to me an obvious possible reason for the Ringwraith's fear of water, and Sauron's various lads not using the sea (save for the allied Corsairs of Umbar, is implied in the Silmarillion, the power of Ulmo not just in the seas but in rivers and streams, especially versus the far weaker Sauron as opposed to Morgoth.
From Unfinished Tales
"The waters that run westward whither, and their springs are poisoned, and my power withdraws from the land."

In the Third Age, why wouldn't his power be dominant in major rivers like the Anduin and the Brandywine?

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Old 07-20-2004, 03:28 PM   #5
Fordim Hedgethistle
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I made the mistake of saying about the last chapter that it was “slight” and not very interesting – then we ended up having not just one of the most interesting discussions in the CbC forum to date, but even spawning our first spin-off thread!

Determined not to make the same mistake twice, I dove into “A Conspiracy Unmasked” determined to find matters that might give it a bit more weight. What I found myself remarking upon was the oddly dark undercurrents to the chapter. It takes place entirely at night, and the descriptions of the night and dark surrounding the house seemed consistently to set off the smallness of the light contained within. This is no return to the relative safety of Bag End like we found at the beginning. Frodo comments that his things have been arranged to make it “look like home,” but of course it cannot look like home for it is not home. I think beneath the comfort and cheer of the songs and the food, there is a terrible melancholy as Frodo’s now-houseless existence is being ironically underscored by this ‘moving in.’ Compare the sense of transience and danger of this chapter to the warmth and safety of Farmer Maggot’s house – Frodo is indeed upon the very edge of his adventure and his journey: this last stopping place in the Shire is only a stop-over, a home he cannot enjoy, and a place where he can only rest up for the trials ahead. I think that it is entirely fitting and right that he should have a dream which foreshadows his final home (looking to the Sea and the west). That dream is another melancholy note, and it ends this chapter in which the hobbits try so hard to maintain a tone of bright happiness.

I think that this is what I found most striking about this chapter: the hobbits are being very hobbitty, but unlike the Party with which the book began, it all seems so much more fragile here. Now that Frodo has completed the first part of his journey and he and his companions are aware of the dangers (and glories) that exist beyond the Shire, their attempt to make themselves ‘at home’ is doomed to failure. They have already been changed, irrevocably, by their experiences, and I find that very sad in a way.

There’s another interesting echo between the hobbits and the Nazgûl, I think (again, with the echoes!). Merry, Pippin, Fatty and Sam have been “unmasked” – this evokes I think the ‘masks’ that the Nazgûl wear at all times and can never take off. Also, the hobbits are in a “conspiracy”; this is a loaded term – one “conspires” against another. I am not suggesting that the hobbits are against Frodo in any way (quite the opposite), but the choice of this word for the chapter title (and they use it themselves) highlights both the connections and contrasts between these two groups.

When we do this, the whole chapter gives us a new view of the Shire – or, rather, a clearer view of the Shire. At the beginning of the book, hobbits were eating and singing and being very silly and charming and it was all lovely and enjoyable. Unbeknownst to them (and to the reader) however, there were these terrible forces of darkness closing in upon them from all sides, drawn by the power of an evil object possessed by a hobbit who was a bit of an outsider in the community, but still a part of the community. In this chapter we have precisely the same situation – with the hobbits inside singing their bath songs and eating mushrooms, and the Nazgûl on the outside, drawn by the power of the Ring – but it all feels so very different, perhaps even wrong. The hobbits (and the reader) have now learned to see their world the way others have for centuries (the Elves, Gandalf, the Rangers); they are aware of the danger and the darkness, and their hobbitty ways are somehow a bit sillier than they were formerly. It’s like growing out of our childhood games. Once you’ve seen what a real gun will do to a person, who wants to play ‘cowboys and Indians’? This chapter, for me, marks the loss of innocence for Frodo. The sense of the disconnect that already exists between Frodo and his community is palpable throughout the chapter. He is going away, probably (he thinks) forever.

At the same time, however, this new and greater awareness gives the hobbits their first chance to show what they are capable of, since not only their silliness is set off against the darkness of reality, but so are the bonds of friendship and goodwill that hold them together. It’s one thing to stand by your friends when your biggest concern is wrangling for that last mushroom…it’s an altogether different thing when you are being chased by the Nine.

I’m not silly enough to do the former, and I’m not brave enough to do the latter. That’s how I know I’m not a hobbit…

Last edited by Fordim Hedgethistle; 07-20-2004 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 07-20-2004, 05:51 PM   #6
Firefoot
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Quote:
the hobbits are being very hobbitty, but unlike the Party with which the book began, it all seems so much more fragile here.
Exactly! It is something of a pretense over the darker dangers and undercurrents which they know are there but do not quite want to acknowledge yet. It brings to mind Merry's words in the Houses of Healing (not to stray too much from the chapter...): "But it is the way of my people to use light words at such times and say less than they mean. We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place." It is the way of hobbits to talk lightly of such things. Even though they fully (or not so fully) understand the dangers they face, they do not speak of them in deep dark ways.
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Old 07-20-2004, 09:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
I shall finish the chapter and return in more appropriate form, but I am not quite sure just what the great value is of this chapter. The bathtime hijinks reminded me of davem's observations about the writing process for earlier chapters and the silliness over upper stories. (Bêthberry)
Quote:
I don't have much to say about this chapter since there wasn't an exorbinate amount going on. I know I am going to get it for this, but I never like this chapter and ones similar for I can't help thinking that it all centers around sitting down and eating, again! (Silmiel of Imladris)
I feel that I have to make an effort to defend this Chapter as it is one of my favourites. Bilbo aside, Merry and Pippin are the characters that I am most fond of (yes, I am a Hobbit at heart ) and I have always been rather taken by the manner in which they join Frodo's Quest. Forget Arwen stealing Glorfindel's horse, Elves at Helm's Deep and "evil" Faramir. The loss of this chapter was one of the changes made in the film that I mourned the most. Merry and Pippin didn't accompany Frodo and Sam because they randomly ran into them in Farmer Maggot's field. They did so out of friendship, knowing that peril lay ahead of them (albeit not the full extent of it).

To my mind, Esty hit the nail on the head in the extract that she quoted at the outset of this thread. I will quote it here in full because I like it so much:


Quote:
You can trust us to stick to you through thick and thin – to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours – closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo. Anyway: there it is. We know of what Gandalf has told you. We know a god deal about the Ring. We are horribly afraid – but we are coming with you; or following you like hounds. (emphasis added)
For me, this chapter is all about friendship. The light-hearted banter and gentle teasing highlights the closeness of these friends (and, for a time, masks their fear and anticipation, as Firefoot has pointed out), but it is the determination of Merry and Pippin to accompany Frodo that really shows the bond between them. Of course, they cannot imagine the full extent of the danger which lies ahead, but they know just about as much as Frodo does and yet they have resolved to stick with him "through thick and thin". That is the measure of their friendship. Even Fatty shows his committment to the cause by agreeing to stay behind at Crickhollow, knowing that these fearsome Black Riders will be turning up sooner or later.

Another passage struck me in this context:


Quote:
"Good! That's settled. Three cheers for Captain Frodo and company!" they shouted; and they danced round him. Merry and Pippin began a song, which they had apparently got ready for the occasion.
Reading it now, this passage very much puts me in mind of the camaraderie of young soldiers celebrating excitedly together after volunteering for service in the Great War - knowing that they are likely to face danger, but little imaging the full horror of it. I wonder if this is a scene from Tolkien's own experience.

Just one further point to add for the time being:


Quote:
But at Crickhollow there is no authority figure, save Frodo (and Merry, I suppose). The danger has not really escalated all that much since the first encounter with a Black Rider. But the protection offered by the safe houses along the way has diminished. (Aiwendil)
The reduced protection that Crickhollow offers is also suggested by the following passage:


Quote:
Their land was originally unprotected from the East; but on that side they had built a hedge: the High Hay ... But, of course, it was not a complete protection. The Forest drew close to the hedge in many places. the Bucklanders kept their doors locked after dark, and that also was not usual in the Shire.
This adds to the dark undertones in this chapter and emphasises that the Hobbits really are now on the edge of "friendly territory". As indeed do Fredegar's ominous comments about the Old Forest and Merry's curious (at least for readers who have not yet read further) comment about the trees being "sleepy and fairly quiet" during the daylight hours.
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Old 07-20-2004, 09:22 PM   #8
Nurumaiel
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Nasssty me, posting on this thread when I'm just barely through Chapter I, but all the same:

Quote:
...the hobbits are being very hobbitty, but unlike the Party with which the book began, it all seems so much more fragile here.
This is very full of truth. The baths, and the hobbity dialogue, etc. all are entirely in character for a hobbit, yet there is a darkness present. As a child hearing this chapter I can recall moving closer to my brothers and father; to this day I don't like to read it unless others are present. The tones are light and cheery but it seems to add to the sinister aspects. There is a danger present, and it seems to be lurking in every shadow. It's frightening to sit and read this chapter, for even when you know what the danger is, there is still a mystery about it. A feeling of sadness, too, conquers me as I read the attempt of the hobbits to be light and humourous when they are vaguely aware of what is coming up in and disappearing from their lives.

At the moment I am sitting in a room full of distant cheeriness myself, with only a dim light and long creeping shadows stretching out towards me, and so I couldn't resist writing how I feel about this particular aspect of the story. Now I will go away and come back after I have read the chapter. Wicked me!
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