Good guys of LOTR clueless?

[Kuruharan]

There is something else to consider as well.

If Gandalf had been more vigilant, he could have just travelled to Minas Tirith circa 2942 to find out about the One Ring, so as to discard that it was not Sauron's ring, instead of waiting 75 years to do that. And a minor plus point is that probably Gandalf would have been better received by Denethor at an earlier time.

Gandalf went to Minas Tirith as soon as he had the idea that the answers he sought might be there.

Now I suppose he will be chided for not thinking of this sooner.

Regarding the search made for Isildur’s body…

I think there is evidence (already noted above) that Elves and Men tried to search for Isildur’s body. However, just because they did not find it is not proof of incompetence. Consider, they were operating in hostile territory. It is true that the local orcs had lost a good deal, but they were probably still capable of pouncing upon small parties of searchers. Later, when Saruman was searching, he probably had an understanding with the local orcs, if indeed they were not working with him. Elves and Men had no particular reason to guard the area, so Saruman was able to search the area most carefully and with security. Just because Saruman found the body does not mean that it was easy to find. It might have been that it took him a very long time to uncover it. We don’t know when the body was found. Saruman began searching in 2851. The next we hear of it is in 2939 when Sauron starts searching the area. That gives Saruman considerable time to drag an unlimited number of bodies from the river.

[Maédhros]

He could immidiately dismiss the thought of it being one of the Nine, Seven or Three. And what would the chances be of a hobbit picking up the long lost One Ring? The chances of him finding a "lesser" ring would probably be bigger.
I think Gandalf did what he could. After TA 3001 when he picked up his suspicions, he went around hunting Gollum for a while as well. And he might also have gone to other places to search, mainly Rivendell, like someone said.

The sad thing is that his suspicions came in 2941 and he acted on them in 3001. He did what he could, he just waited for 60 years.

Saruman was, after all, Gandalf's superior, and had studied the rings a lot. Gandalf had at that time no reason to mistrust Saruman.

This is interesting.
From LOTR

That was the first real warning I had that all was not well. I told Bilbo often that such rings were better left unused; but he resented it, and soon got angry. There was little else that I could do. I could not take it from him without doing greater harm; and I had no right to do so anyway. I could only watch and wait. I might perhaps have consulted Saruman the White, but something always held me back.’
‘Who is he?’ asked Frodo. I have never heard of him before.’
‘Maybe not,’ answered Gandalf. ‘Hobbits are, or were, no concern of his. Yet he is great among the Wise. He is the chief of my order and the head of the Council. His knowledge is deep, but his pride has grown with it, and he takes ill any meddling. The lore of the Elven-rings, great and small, is his province. He has long studied it, seeking the lost secrets of their making; but when the Rings were debated in the Council, all that he would reveal to us of his ring-lore told against my fears. So my doubt slept - but uneasily. Still I watched and I waited.

Gandalf suspected Saruman for a long time, otherwise he would have consulted with him. So the supposed no-reason not to trust him is void. Look at that point in time in which Gandalf had strong doubts about Bilbo's ring, but as yet did nothing. And the sad thing is that Gandalf had the information at that time that Bilbo's ring was indeed Sauron's Ring.
From LOTR

The memory of words at the Council came back to me: words of Saruman, half-heeded at the time. I heard them now clearly in my heart.
` "The Nine, the Seven, and the Three," he said, "had each their proper gem. Not so the One. It was round and unadorned, as it were one of the lesser rings; but its maker set marks upon it that the skilled, maybe, could still see and read."

When did this Council occur? In 2953 TA, just 11 years after Bilbo had returned to the Shire with his ring. OOPS.

Bilbo's ring seemed very harmless. He stole it from a disgusting creature in a cave under the mountains (which the creature was using to hunt fish). It can turn him invisible... None of this points anywhere near the great Ring Sauron used to enslave the Nazgul. I don't find the situation of "Oh - Bilbo found a ring. Better make sure it's not Sauron's One Ring!" plausible (even ignoring the fact that the Ring was thought to be lost forever, washed into the sea). Gandalf does say magic rings are "rare and curious," but while rare, there were undoubtedly many more aside from the Rings of Power (and though there were 20, at the least 12 were accounted for). It took the Ring preserving his youth to throw up a flag.

No, in the last meeting of the White Council in 2953 TA, Gandalf knew that the One Ring had no gems, but was made to seem one of the lesser Rings. It was with this information that Gandalf went riding fast to Minas Tirith. But he seems that he just forgot about it.

This has, IMO, sufficiently answered by NightKnight and Legolas.

Not really.

Horrible excuse? Don't throw that at me! I'm just trying to find an explanation for this situation. The Elves present (after Isildur already had died) at the Gladden Fields were Thranduil's Wood Elves, not Elves from Rivendell. So, before the Disaster had reached Elrond's ears, several weeks would have past. Maybe he sent out a small party to seek for Isildur's remains, for all we know. Maybe not. As opposed to you, I do belief also Elrond's realm would have been in great turmoil. He and his army had away from home and hearth for the duration of the War of the Lat Alliance, which lasted a total of twelve years! After returning in Rivendell there would have been many pressing matters to attend to.
When all was 'normal' again in Rivendell, Arnor, and Gondor time had passed and people probably thought it no longer usefull to hunt for remains of Isildur, guessing he had been brought to sea by the River Anduin.

Let put it this way: Isildur died in the year 2 TA. In 2643 Déagol the Stoor finds the One Ring, and is murdered by Sméagol. Look at the obscene amount of time that passed between those two events. Elrond weds Celebrían in 109 TA.
It was because of the lack of interest coupled with the incompetence of the searchers that they didn't find anything. It was Elrond himself that talked to Isildur about destroying the Ring.

Gandalf went to Minas Tirith as soon as he had the idea that the answers he sought might be there.

Now I suppose he will be chided for not thinking of this sooner.

No. Lets examine the elements one more time:

1. Gandalf felt uneasy about Bilbo's ring.
2. In the last meeting of the White Council, Gandalf had the knowledge that Bilbo's ring description was similar that of Sauron.
Gandalf had all of the information that he needed to find out if Bilbo's was that of Sauron just 11 years after Bilbo returned to the Shire. If you don't think that there is a problem with Gandalf waiting an extra 64 years, then that is ok with me, but I think that it is just plain wrong.
The logical line of reasoning to me would be:
1. Bilbo is my friend.
2. I have a bad feeling about Bilbo's magic ring.
3. Bilbo's ring description and that of Sauron are similar.
4. Go and do some research about it yourself, for the sake of friendship!

think there is evidence (already noted above) that Elves and Men tried to search for Isildur’s body. However, just because they did not find it is not proof of incompetence. Consider, they were operating in hostile territory. It is true that the local orcs had lost a good deal, but they were probably still capable of pouncing upon small parties of searchers. Later, when Saruman was searching, he probably had an understanding with the local orcs, if indeed they were not working with him. Elves and Men had no particular reason to guard the area, so Saruman was able to search the area most carefully and with security. Just because Saruman found the body does not mean that it was easy to find. It might have been that it took him a very long time to uncover it. We don’t know when the body was found. Saruman began searching in 2851. The next we hear of it is in 2939 when Sauron starts searching the area. That gives Saruman considerable time to drag an unlimited number of bodies from the river.

I guess that that is as good an excuse as any that I will hear. If the wise could not mount an effective search for the most important artifact of the Age in more than 2000 years, they have to be incompetent.

[Kuruharan]

In the last meeting of the White Council, Gandalf had the knowledge that Bilbo's ring description was similar that of Sauron. Gandalf had all of the information that he needed to find out if Bilbo's was that of Sauron just 11 years after Bilbo returned to the Shire.

Incorrect. “Similar” is not “same.” Note the quote comparing it to the appearance of “lesser rings.” (As a side note, there had to be other lesser rings besides the dwarf, elf, and human rings. Each of those was described as having a particular gemstone. The point of comparison was that the One Ring had no gem. If it was compared to other rings lacking gemstones, there must have been other lesser rings of the same make to compare it to.)

Anyway, Gandalf was uncertain how to determine if the Ring was The One rather than one of the lesser rings. That is why he was trying to find Gollum for all those years. He hoped to find a clue. He did not know that fire would bring out the letters that would reveal the Ring until he read that in Minas Tirith. (And I don’t want to hear anything about Gandalf tossing the Ring into a fire beforehand just to see what would happen. I’m sure your first step in determining the properties of a unique item is to try to destroy it.) Just because the idea of trying to find some writing of Isildur in Minas Tirith did not occur to Gandalf until the hunt for Gollum appeared certain to prove fruitless does not make him incompetent. Not even wizards can think of everything all the time.

If the wise could not mount an effective search for the most important artifact of the Age in more than 2000 years, they have to be incompetent.

This statement is presenting a false either/or situation (particularly since you did not bother to answer the gist of my suggestion). This is not so simple a matter as to be an either/or. If the Wise are to be judged by such a standard then the standard must be applied to their Enemy as well. The obvious correlation is since Sauron failed to conquer the world in several millennia of trying, he has to be incompetent. He is also incompetent because it took him so long to figure out what had happened to the Ring.

If everyone in the tale is incompetent then competence ceases to have any meaning because nobody possesses it. It tends to render this whole discussion rather pointless.

[Maédhros]

Incorrect. “Similar” is not “same.” Note the quote comparing it to the appearance of “lesser rings.” (As a side note, there had to be other lesser rings besides the dwarf, elf, and human rings. Each of those was described as having a particular gemstone. The point of comparison was that the One Ring had no gem. If it was compared to other rings lacking gemstones, there must have been other lesser rings of the same make to compare it to.)

Please provide evidence as to wether these supposed other lesser rings where. And while similar is not the same, it definitely warranted an investigation at that time.

Anyway, Gandalf was uncertain how to determine if the Ring was The One rather than one of the lesser rings. That is why he was trying to find Gollum for all those years. He hoped to find a clue. He did not know that fire would bring out the letters that would reveal the Ring until he read that in Minas Tirith. (And I don’t want to hear anything about Gandalf tossing the Ring into a fire beforehand just to see what would happen. I’m sure your first step in determining the properties of a unique item is to try to destroy it.) Just because the idea of trying to find some writing of Isildur in Minas Tirith did not occur to Gandalf until the hunt for Gollum appeared certain to prove fruitless does not make him incompetent. Not even wizards can think of everything all the time.

I cannot be clearer. In that particular instance he was incompetent. There is no way around it. At the time of the last White Council he must have done something about Bilbo's ring. He knew that Bibo's ring and Sauron's ring had similar looks, and he had a bad feeling about it. The logical and competent thing is to do something about it, not let the nagging feeling haunt you for years and years. I asked you, would it have killed Gandalf to take a month out of those 69 years to find out more about it?
No. There is an interest statement by Gandalf in which he says that he was deceived by the words of Saruman. I don't think that he was lulled but rather he wanted to convince himself that Bilbo's ring could not in any way be that of Sauron, even though he had a bad feeling about it and they had similar descriptions. IMO Gandalf deceived himself by saying, well if Saruman who studied the lore of the Rings think that it is lost then it must be so.
A note about fires, you don't mean the same fire in Bilbo's fireplace that could not even melt gold?

This statement is presenting a false either/or situation (particularly since you did not bother to answer the gist of my suggestion). This is not so simple a matter as to be an either/or. If the Wise are to be judged by such a standard then the standard must be applied to their Enemy as well. The obvious correlation is since Sauron failed to conquer the world in several millennia of trying, he has to be incompetent. He is also incompetent because it took him so long to figure out what had happened to the Ring.

Not true at all. The good guys only won by sheer luck. The destruction of the ring was the only way in which they could win.
If they could have destroyed the Ring much sooner than when it actually happened, a great deal of wars and battles and suffering could have been avoided. The destruction of Sauron in the year 2 of the TA would have been a greater victory for ME than his actual defeat 3000 plus years later. This is what people fail to see.

[NightKnight]

He knew that Bibo's ring and Sauron's ring had similar looks,

And he probably also knew that many other rings in the world were plain, golden rings. Why should it be just the One Ring, that had been missing for so long and was thought to be flushed out into the Sea?

[Kuruharan]

Please provide evidence as to wether these supposed other lesser rings where.

What? Could you restate that in a less garbled fashion?

In that particular instance he was incompetent.

He was mistaken. It is not the same thing as incompetence. A mistake is simply an error. Incompetence categorizes the subject as being wholly unfitted for the required task. You have made a convincing argument that the Wise (and Gandalf in particular) made a mistake (a mistake he owned up to). You have yet to make anything approaching a convincing argument that Gandalf (or anybody else) making a mistake means that they are incompetent.

IMO Gandalf deceived himself by saying, well if Saruman who studied the lore of the Rings think that it is lost then it must be so.

Perhaps. However, defering to another’s judgement is not proof of incompetence. Nobody had reason to suspect that Saruman was a traitor at this point. Interestingly enough, at the time of the last meeting of the White Council (according to the Tale of Years) Saruman had not even then made his final descent into evil. There was no reason to suppose that Saruman was not telling the truth as far as he knew it.

A note about fires, you don't mean the same fire in Bilbo's fireplace that could not even melt gold?

You are being deliberately obtuse. Gandalf did not know that the letters (or whatever) would be there to be seen. He investigated that possibility as soon as he considered a means of doing so.

The good guys only won by sheer luck. The destruction of the ring was the only way in which they could win.

Yet again you have missed the point of what I was trying to say.

How does their victory by luck prove they were incompetent? I could name many instances where highly competent individuals succeeded by luck (or at least what is called luck). That is just a part of life.

If they could have destroyed the Ring much sooner than when it actually happened, a great deal of wars and battles and suffering could have been avoided. The destruction of Sauron in the year 2 of the TA would have been a greater victory for ME than his actual defeat 3000 plus years later.

While this may be true, this does not have much to do with what we are talking about. That should be discussed under a thread titled “Why didn’t the Elves Push Isildur into Mount Doom when they had the Chance?” While I personally think that they should have dumped Isildur into the volcano and been done with it; that they did not is not proof of incompetence. The usual defense is more of a moral argument.

[symestreem]

Well, I figured this theory would seem too anti-good guy to fly with most, but I'm surprised that there hasn't been anyone at all on the Downs that is willing to play along a bit and maybe has some thoughts or quotes that would go with it.

Quotes? OK.

"And this is the dreadful chance, Frodo. He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done. But he knows now that it has not perished, that it has been found. So he is seeking it, seeking it, and all his thought is bent on it. It is his great hope and our great fear."
"Why, why wasn't it destroyed?" cried Frodo. "And how did the Enemy ever come to lose it, if he was so strong, and it was so precious to him?".....
"It was taken from him", said Gandalf. "The strength of the elves to resist him was greater long ago; and not all men were estranged from them. The men of Westernesse came to their aid."

bold emphasis mine; italics Tolkien's

Then all listened while Elrond in his clear voice spoke of Sauron and the Rings of Power, and their forging in the Second Age of the world long ago. A part of his tale was known to some there, but the full tale to none, and many eyes were turned to Elrond in fear and wonder as he told of the Elven-smiths of Eregion and their friendship for knowledge, by which Sauron ensnared him.

At this the stranger, Boromir, broke in. "So that is what became of the Ring!" he cried. "If ever such a tale was told in the South, it has long been forgotten. I have heard of the Great Ring of him that we do not name; but we believed that it perished from the world in the ruin of his first realm."

I had a point to make with this, but unfortunately no time to make it. So, I'll be Bach.