The Landing of Elendil - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Osse · 07-09-2004, 06:12 PM

Thank you for supplying that quote! My copy of the Silm. is somewhere buried under many boxes in a garage many miles from here.

This seems to have cleared up my issues with this topic. Thank you to all who contributed to this thread!

Regards,
Osse

Nirvana II · 07-12-2004, 10:50 PM

isnt it possible that the ships were incredibly large?????

Osse · 07-13-2004, 05:12 AM

It is not inconceivable! Imagine: Thousands of trees felled, linen in every room, and ensuites in the upper deck. Enjoy deck games and open air - Join an Elendil Cruise today!!

symestreem · 07-13-2004, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana II

isnt it possible that the ships were incredibly large?????

They were extremely large. How big were you thinking?

Mithalwen · 07-13-2004, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by symestreem

They were extremely large. How big were you thinking?

I doubt the ensuites were necessary - everyone in Middle Earth seems teflon coated - the goodies anyway - and noone ever needed the loo...... sorry..... I have an unhealthy interest in elvish physiology ....

On a more serious level I an reading this book on early chinese exploration and they had really massive ships ...... unbelievably huge .... made the "Endeavour" look like something you'd float ona pond.........

Nirvana II · 07-13-2004, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by symestreem

They were extremely large. How big were you thinking?

big enough to hold the basis of an entire civilization..or just enough people to be able to rebuild a kingdom...remember there were only 9 ships...what is it with the number 9 in Middle Earth?

symestreem · 07-13-2004, 01:09 PM

They are described as 'great ships' several times, and it is implied that they are big enough for someone of high rank to live there comfortably (Aldarion). Try looking in Aldarion and Erendis and Akallabeth.

Osse · 07-14-2004, 02:45 AM

Great ships can mean that the either they were great in comparison to the craft of other races, or that they were truly huge... i'd go for the former! Just because a ship is large, dosn't mean that it could carry many people... okay for arguments sake let's say that they had more than one deck, and many masts... three decks sounds good, and three masts....

A ship that size... hmmm... you'd hope to have about 200 passengers and 70 or so crew! That's still not many.

If however they were huge (bigger than anything man has been able to create) they could obviously hold much more than that! Say... 500 passengers and 160 crew. That ship would be absolutely enormous!

And as for the Endevour... it was small enough to sail on lakes... it wasn't that big. The explorers often chose speed over bulk - they didn't need to carry cargo, just provisions.

Mithalwen · 07-14-2004, 12:35 PM

The book I am reading is 1421- The year China discovered the world.... they had ships whose complement topped 1K!!!!!!!

And Endeavour, well.... maybe not on an English lake..... Windemere maybe..... but it was designed to go in low water because of Cook's surveying purposes... although nearly sunk by Joseph Banks' modifications for the second voyage......

Lalwendë · 07-14-2004, 12:50 PM

The ships may well have been exceptionally large - I can't remember the exact words, but in Akallabeth it says that Ar-Pharazon's 'flagship' was huge - being as big as a castle seems to stick in my mind. So, there could have been hundreds just on one ship. A BD-er who is less lazy might like to look it up.

The Endeavour? Small? It didn't seem that way when I went on it (the replica I hasten to add, I am not over 200 years old)! I think they crammed something like at least 200 men on board. It was converted from a coal carrying boat. There's a nautical term for these which I've forgotten, and it's going to annoy me now. These were designed to be shallow bottomed. That's probably why they chose to convert a ship, if it was intended to go into shallower waters.

07-09-2004, 06:12 PM	#1
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	Thank you for supplying that quote! My copy of the Silm. is somewhere buried under many boxes in a garage many miles from here. This seems to have cleared up my issues with this topic. Thank you to all who contributed to this thread! Regards, Osse __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'

07-12-2004, 10:50 PM	#2
Nirvana II Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Yellow Submarine....sandwich Posts: 207	isnt it possible that the ships were incredibly large????? __________________ Это - российская вещь, Вы не поняли бы. Вы - пончик желе! Я оказался снова. Частное сообщение меня, если Вы понимаете.

07-13-2004, 05:12 AM	#3
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	It is not inconceivable! Imagine: Thousands of trees felled, linen in every room, and ensuites in the upper deck. Enjoy deck games and open air - Join an Elendil Cruise today!! __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'

07-14-2004, 02:45 AM	#8
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	Great ships can mean that the either they were great in comparison to the craft of other races, or that they were truly huge... i'd go for the former! Just because a ship is large, dosn't mean that it could carry many people... okay for arguments sake let's say that they had more than one deck, and many masts... three decks sounds good, and three masts.... A ship that size... hmmm... you'd hope to have about 200 passengers and 70 or so crew! That's still not many. If however they were huge (bigger than anything man has been able to create) they could obviously hold much more than that! Say... 500 passengers and 160 crew. That ship would be absolutely enormous! And as for the Endevour... it was small enough to sail on lakes... it wasn't that big. The explorers often chose speed over bulk - they didn't need to carry cargo, just provisions. __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'

07-14-2004, 12:35 PM	#9
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,459	The book I am reading is 1421- The year China discovered the world.... they had ships whose complement topped 1K!!!!!!! And Endeavour, well.... maybe not on an English lake..... Windemere maybe..... but it was designed to go in low water because of Cook's surveying purposes... although nearly sunk by Joseph Banks' modifications for the second voyage...... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 07-14-2004 at 01:20 PM. Reason: typo

07-13-2004, 01:09 PM	#7
symestreem Face in the Water Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 728	They are described as 'great ships' several times, and it is implied that they are big enough for someone of high rank to live there comfortably (Aldarion). Try looking in Aldarion and Erendis and Akallabeth.

07-14-2004, 12:50 PM	#10
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	The ships may well have been exceptionally large - I can't remember the exact words, but in Akallabeth it says that Ar-Pharazon's 'flagship' was huge - being as big as a castle seems to stick in my mind. So, there could have been hundreds just on one ship. A BD-er who is less lazy might like to look it up. The Endeavour? Small? It didn't seem that way when I went on it (the replica I hasten to add, I am not over 200 years old)! I think they crammed something like at least 200 men on board. It was converted from a coal carrying boat. There's a nautical term for these which I've forgotten, and it's going to annoy me now. These were designed to be shallow bottomed. That's probably why they chose to convert a ship, if it was intended to go into shallower waters.