The Sight of Gandalf - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mad Baggins · 07-02-2004, 03:10 PM

It's not like Gandalf knew how skinny the hobbits would be, anyway.

Knight of Gondor · 07-02-2004, 09:30 PM

As far as the movie goes, it would seem that during the scene in Meduseld where Gandalf is troubled about no news of Frodo, he paused and could almost sense for sure that Frodo was still alive. Aragorn saw this, but Gandalf told him that this vision, this feeling of Frodo still being alive has gone away, he cannot tell one way or the other.

As far as the book goes, I believe there were other parts where we learned that Gandalf had/has an extra sense, a perception beyond mortal normalities. After healing Theoden, did he not look out and see a dim flame in the perils of Emyn Muil? Or was that Legolas's vision?

PaleStar · 07-02-2004, 10:36 PM

Kath, the point with the Eagles is that Gandalf still had some semblance of hope that the poor creature could be saved somehow.
Besides, I don't think Gandalf would've had a problem with hauling one hobbit up onto the Eagles back.

Silmiel of Imladris · 07-06-2004, 10:06 PM

I really don't know how this conversation got on the subject of the eagles, but back to Gandalf's sight. Here is what I think the line meant. People would be suprised on the power of the human mind and intuition. What I think Gandalf was doing was just looking at the cause and effects. He looked at what Sauron was doing to find his ring and used his brain to figure out what Frodo was doing. Then when Sauron pulled his army back to Mordor Gandalf said Frodo had moved beyond his sight because Sauron was just sitting there. There were no effects so a cause could not be calculated.

Believe me or not, I don't care, but this is what I see everyday in the real world.

kboleen · 07-06-2004, 10:50 PM

I see the scene between Aragorn and Gandalf as a sort of "passing of the torch" for lack of a better word, because it is Aragorn giving Gandalf solace as opposed to the other way around. It was as if Aragorn was finally stepping into the "shoes" of the king he would become. Less on what is actually said, and more on who said it and to whom.

Essex · 07-07-2004, 12:01 PM

The topic went off in the eagles direction because this was used as an example by me of where Gandalf didn't possess any 2nd sight. ie he had no idea whether there would be 1, 2 or 3 people to pick up on mount doom, so he obviously went for all 3.

we always fall into this type of conversation when we talk about a particular bit of the film where Jackson & co have invented the scene/ conversation, as he did in this case.

Change any part of tolkien's plot and the cracks begin to appear. It shows what a great plot the book itself has. I mean Tolkien spent 15 years or so of his life writing it, so this is one of the reasons why the plot is so tight, and works so well.

Add in little changes to conversations, and big changes like Frodo at Osgiliath, then the arguments begin into exactly what the character/ scene meant. (We've seen a similar thread over the past few weeks where gandalf speaks to aragorn and seems surprised that Sam is with Frodo. An easy way for Jackson to tie 2 scenes together, but this adds a certain bit of confusion for us book nerds, and therefore we spend a lot of time trying to figure out why Gandalf felt this way, where in 'book reality' he didn't.........)

Not that I'm dissing movie rotk by the way, it is the best film ever made bar none.

Gil-Galad · 07-07-2004, 02:30 PM

meh, i expected more in ROTK...

07-02-2004, 03:10 PM	#1
Mad Baggins Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: A place where after thunder golden showers come falling like a rain of flowers. Posts: 371	It's not like Gandalf knew how skinny the hobbits would be, anyway. __________________ I like buying snacks from a vending machine because food is better when it falls. Sometimes at the grocery, I'll drop a candy bar so that it will achieve its maximum flavor potential.

07-02-2004, 09:30 PM	#2
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	Gandalf As far as the movie goes, it would seem that during the scene in Meduseld where Gandalf is troubled about no news of Frodo, he paused and could almost sense for sure that Frodo was still alive. Aragorn saw this, but Gandalf told him that this vision, this feeling of Frodo still being alive has gone away, he cannot tell one way or the other. As far as the book goes, I believe there were other parts where we learned that Gandalf had/has an extra sense, a perception beyond mortal normalities. After healing Theoden, did he not look out and see a dim flame in the perils of Emyn Muil? Or was that Legolas's vision? __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

07-02-2004, 10:36 PM	#3
PaleStar Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 43	Kath, the point with the Eagles is that Gandalf still had some semblance of hope that the poor creature could be saved somehow. Besides, I don't think Gandalf would've had a problem with hauling one hobbit up onto the Eagles back. __________________ Then down the warrior tumbled/a long and weary way/ 'till at last he rested soundly/ among the water below/ bested by the darkness

07-06-2004, 10:06 PM	#4
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	I really don't know how this conversation got on the subject of the eagles, but back to Gandalf's sight. Here is what I think the line meant. People would be suprised on the power of the human mind and intuition. What I think Gandalf was doing was just looking at the cause and effects. He looked at what Sauron was doing to find his ring and used his brain to figure out what Frodo was doing. Then when Sauron pulled his army back to Mordor Gandalf said Frodo had moved beyond his sight because Sauron was just sitting there. There were no effects so a cause could not be calculated. Believe me or not, I don't care, but this is what I see everyday in the real world. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-07-2004, 02:30 PM	#7
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	meh, i expected more in ROTK... __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

07-06-2004, 10:50 PM	#5
kboleen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Northwest Florida Posts: 27	I see the scene between Aragorn and Gandalf as a sort of "passing of the torch" for lack of a better word, because it is Aragorn giving Gandalf solace as opposed to the other way around. It was as if Aragorn was finally stepping into the "shoes" of the king he would become. Less on what is actually said, and more on who said it and to whom.

07-07-2004, 12:01 PM	#6
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	The topic went off in the eagles direction because this was used as an example by me of where Gandalf didn't possess any 2nd sight. ie he had no idea whether there would be 1, 2 or 3 people to pick up on mount doom, so he obviously went for all 3. we always fall into this type of conversation when we talk about a particular bit of the film where Jackson & co have invented the scene/ conversation, as he did in this case. Change any part of tolkien's plot and the cracks begin to appear. It shows what a great plot the book itself has. I mean Tolkien spent 15 years or so of his life writing it, so this is one of the reasons why the plot is so tight, and works so well. Add in little changes to conversations, and big changes like Frodo at Osgiliath, then the arguments begin into exactly what the character/ scene meant. (We've seen a similar thread over the past few weeks where gandalf speaks to aragorn and seems surprised that Sam is with Frodo. An easy way for Jackson to tie 2 scenes together, but this adds a certain bit of confusion for us book nerds, and therefore we spend a lot of time trying to figure out why Gandalf felt this way, where in 'book reality' he didn't.........) Not that I'm dissing movie rotk by the way, it is the best film ever made bar none.