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Old 06-21-2004, 10:25 PM   #1
Lathriel
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I always liked the fact that this chapter was light hearted because the rest of the book is very serious. The happy beginning gives the reader courage to get through the darkest parts of the book. Plus I think that lots of the information is essential. Since the main characters are hobbits we should understand their culture and what is important to them.

To me the fact that Bilbo wants to see the elves again gives me feeling that although Bilbo had the ring for a long time and although the ring came very close to overtaking him it never did and it tells me that bilbo is very strong to withstand such power. Sure he had help but he still managed to do what Gollum could not.

(But then again Gollum is very different, however this chapter does not concern Gollum, doesn't he come in at Chapter three?)

The song, "The road goes ever on and on..." always made me feel happy and the song seems to say that there are so many things to do in the world that you just have to follow a road and you will see many new things that will sweep you up into a new experience.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:47 PM   #2
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Early on in the 1st Chapter we can see a reflection of Tolkien’s own life with Frodo. Frodo becomes an orphan and is taken in by the rich Bilbo. Tolkien himself was orphaned and taken care of by Father Morgan, although the riches part didn’t exist for Tolkien.

The older I get, the more hilarious the rest of the chapter becomes. Family politics at its best. And what’s more, it is probably going on within your own families as we speak. It does in mine.

The Sackville-Bagginses think that Bilbo is going to leave them Bag End, then Frodo becomes the Heir. Otho and Lobeila go to the party but they can’t stand Bilbo. This one can’t figure out why that one would marry into that family and so it goes on. We have Bilbo as the ’black sheep’ in the family because he doesn’t behave in a way that seems Hobbit like. Tell me that it doesn’t all sound familiar in your own family.

A little later in the chapter the family fun continues with Frodo handing out the gifts that Bilbo has left for them. This part always reminds me of when a will is being read, people always seem a little disappointed with what they get. Then Otho and Lobeila what to see the will to check all is in order, because they wanted the money LOL.

We’re also introduced to the Ring again. Firstly, through Bilbo using it and his reluctance to leave it behind. Then about the story Bilbo used to tell everyone about how he obtained the Ring, which is interesting - why do you suppose he lied about it ? Also, it would seem at this point that Gandalf is beginning to believe that this is perhaps the One Ring.
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Old 06-22-2004, 01:27 AM   #3
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Yes, Arkenstone, I completly agree with your post! I see a bit of Bilbo in myself. At family gatherings, I always have relatives avoid topics that could lead me to begin talking in any way contrary to thier conservative beliefs.

Bilbo was once a good, social type hobbit, doing all the right things and conversing in all the right groups, until, that wandering wizard sent him on a ridiculous quest. And then, he went and adopted Frodo, and began turning the poor lad into a young version of himself.

The town was never the same.

Although, I do see a sense of intrigue in the mannerisms of those gossiping down at the Ivy Bush, when the locals press the Gaffer for information. The interogators seem dissapointed when they hear of how little treasure Bilbo was said to have accumulated. And then, of course, the younger hobbits insist that there must be hidden tunnels full of gold and jewels, and must be extricated from the cellar.

They seem (beyond a liking for wealth, which is common enough) to be thuroughly enjoying Bilbo's eccentiricity, and tend to be dissapointed when thier expecations are not lived up to.
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Old 06-22-2004, 01:58 AM   #4
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I also agree with your post, Arkenstone. What delighted me about scenes in the first chapter and especially in the the scene at the Ivy Bush is that it gave us an insight into hobbit life and their petty likes and dislikes (e.g. Gaffer disliking Ted Sandyman 'even more than usual'). The Shire reminds me of a very sheltered place, with inhabitants who love to gossip and chat about the most eccentric people and relieve old tales and even 'bigger' things such as dwarves and dragons. Whether this has any correlation to the environment and community Tolkien lived in, I can't say as I haven't read any biographies on him (yet).

In post #14, Fordim Hedgethistle said-

Quote:
Can anyone say "foreshadowing"? Is it just me or is Gandalf here being presented as a precursor to Frodo who will, in the future, be "bent, almost as if he was carrying a great weight" as he walks into Mordor. Frodo will also be a "cloaked figure" who "vanish[es] into the twilight."
I never thought of that before, and it's a very interesting thought. I believe that your right, as Tolkien has used foreshadowing in this book (i.e. Frodo's dream in Bombadil's house) and that most, or even all, 'little' interconnections in the book should be taken as intended ones, as his world is so diverse and intricate down to the smalles detail.
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Old 06-22-2004, 02:24 AM   #5
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I would like to point out how Tolkien's knowledge of English onomastics plays a part here. All of the names you will see on that map either are or could be real English place names. Newbury in Buckland bears the same name as a Berkshire market town, just as there really are places called Stock and Bucklebury. Michel Delving on the White Downs bears a striking resemblance to Micheldever near Winchester, which is also situated on some chalk downs, as are much of Berkshire and Oxfordshire. Tolkien holidayed more than once in Lyme Regis and Sidmouth, and there is an echo of the Devonshire town of Honiton in the centre of the narrative. All in all, for the English reader, this is supposed to be familiar territory
This has always struck me - the 'Englishness' of the world of the Shire - to the extent that I was deeply surprised that readers from other countries could relate to the story at all. I can't help asking the (probably unanswerable)question, whether English readers understand/experience the Shire & its inhabitants differently from readers in other countries (as, I'd assume, a Russian would understand/experience, say, War & Peace differently to a non Russian). Or, if you're not English, are there parts of your country that feel like the Shire - Hope this is not too far off topic, but the effect of the opening chapter on myself (& like Squatter I'd include the map of the Shire in with the first chapter) is to place me in a world which I recognise - landscapes, placenames, personal names, etc - so that the sense of 'menace' is more intense & disturbing because its happening 'at home', as it were. If you come from a country/culture which is very diferent from the one described, do you identify with the Shire, or does it feel more 'alien' to you. Or to put it another way, does the Shire feel like the familiar & 'everday' world to everyone, or does it have the same kind of 'otherness' about it as Lorien or Gondor - does anyone start the book with the feeling that they're [I]already[/] in another world?
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Old 06-22-2004, 03:05 AM   #6
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In rsponse to Davem, I do indeed feel as though I am in another world when I step into the Shire, or many other settings in Middle-Earth. My home is more akin to the wastland of Mordor, only populated by throny shrubs.

I have been to other, different climates, of course. But I have yet to visit one as beautiful as I the one I would love to see in the U.K.

I think this is yet another example of Tolkien's genius. Before reading this book, my desire to travel there was irrelevant. But afterwards, I find myself wishing for forests, moors, downs, woodland paths, hills, streams, and pretty much everything one cannot find near my home.

I connected with the Shire because it was so peaceful, so close to nature. Las Vegas, even in the suburbs, is not peaceful, by any means. But there is nature, if one looks hard enough. The hobbits love thier land, despite minor annoyances, and I love mine, even when the thermometer reaches high into triple digits.

So, despite blatant differences, the Shire and the Las Vegas desert have something in common. People belonged there, and I know that I belong here. (no matter how much I want to move to England)
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Old 06-22-2004, 03:37 AM   #7
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Don't idealise this country too much! Its still very beautiful in parts, but its not the Shire! There are still places that are close to it, though. Every year I travel down to Oxford for the Oxonmoot weekend with the Tolkien Society (culminating in a visit to Tolkien's grave on the Sunday morning). The countryside around Oxford still retains what I feel to be an echo of the Shire. And the 'Bird & Baby' (The Eagle & Child pub) where the Inklings used to meet, is a typical English pub - perhaps lending some of its atmosphere to the Ivy Bush - apart from the photos of the Inklings & a framed letter from them on the wall.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davem View Post
Squatter:


This has always struck me - the 'Englishness' of the world of the Shire - to the extent that I was deeply surprised that readers from other countries could relate to the story at all. I can't help asking the (probably unanswerable)question, whether English readers understand/experience the Shire & its inhabitants differently from readers in other countries (as, I'd assume, a Russian would understand/experience, say, War & Peace differently to a non Russian). Or, if you're not English, are there parts of your country that feel like the Shire - Hope this is not too far off topic, but the effect of the opening chapter on myself (& like Squatter I'd include the map of the Shire in with the first chapter) is to place me in a world which I recognise - landscapes, placenames, personal names, etc - so that the sense of 'menace' is more intense & disturbing because its happening 'at home', as it were. If you come from a country/culture which is very diferent from the one described, do you identify with the Shire, or does it feel more 'alien' to you. Or to put it another way, does the Shire feel like the familiar & 'everday' world to everyone, or does it have the same kind of 'otherness' about it as Lorien or Gondor - does anyone start the book with the feeling that they're [I]already[/] in another world?
I realize that this thread is quite old but having found this particular observation fascinating I could not help but respond.

While the Shire is very English in its placenames and geographical features I, as an American, have always been able to identify very strongly with the Shire and its inhabitants simply because I am from a part of the US that shares many features (IMHO) with the Shire.

I am from Mississippi - a VERY rural and agricultural state. We have a remarkably varied landscape here, just like the Shire. We have more than our share of gently rolling hills, woods, fields, and little rivers. A dirt road is not uncommon when one gets outside of town (or "out in the county" as we would say). It is green and beautiful. We even have a region much like the Marish, i.e. the Delta, where it is very flat, sometimes marshy, near a river on our border, largely farm land, and so on.

Much of our culture in Mississippi (and the rural Southeastern US in general) has a tendency to be parochial and insular. Conversations run as much, if not more, to the doings of the neighbors and other acquaintances as they do to events on the national scale. Of course there are exceptions - there are large cities like Atlanta and great centers of learning and education like the famous universities in North Carolina. But Mississippi is hundreds of miles away from those places and is still very rural. In fact one might say, with some truth, that a love of learning is far from general here - a very frustrating fact.

Meanwhile genealogy is very important here and conversations between strangers inevitably run to which county one is from, whom one knows, and to whom one is related. I have heard and listened to conversations that sound very much like things the various Hobbits say through the first few chapters in the Shire (i.e. syntax, diction, turns of phrase, etc.) all my life, though of course with Southern accents rather than English ones.

Of course the parallels are not exact and it is easy for me to see many differences as well. Americans who live in other parts of the country may not be able to relate so well but I have always imagined that Americans living in the Southeast and New England (as another example) probably don't have too tough a time finding a vicarious home in the Shire.
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