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Old 06-21-2004, 03:14 PM   #1
Boromir88
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Yes, I totally agree, the hobbits are really dependant only on themselves, anything "un-hobbitlike" they disregard, pretend its not real, and just go on living. They don't show much care for anything that they don't know about, and they want to hear things they already know about, anything else they just basically ignore. Which as Varda pointed out some hints of foreshadowing of the troubles to come in the shire, maybe if the hobbits paid attention and showed some care for the "strange" events that went on during this chapter they could have prevented the scouring of the shire. Grant it The Shire was saved in the end, by what the hobbits would refer to Frodo, Sam..etc as "strange," but Saruman corrupting The Shire could have been prevented if the hobbits had paid more attention to the events at Bilbo's party. Instead they just took their presents and cracked jokes about how "weird" Bilbo was, and about how he didn't act hobbitlike.
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:36 PM   #2
Fordim Hedgethistle
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*Varda* -- you quoted the following lines from the end of the chapter, and I'd just like to bring forward here to make a quick point:

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but Frodo thought the old wizard looked unusually bent, almost as if he was carrying a great weight. The evening was closing in, and his cloaked figure quickly vanished into the twilight.
Can anyone say "foreshadowing"? Is it just me or is Gandalf here being presented as a precursor to Frodo who will, in the future, be "bent, almost as if he was carrying a great weight" as he walks into Mordor. Frodo will also be a "cloaked figure" who "vanish[es] into the twilight." What I like about this foreshadowing moment is that it presents to Frodo (through whose eyes we 'see' Gandalf) the good and the bad of his journey to come. He will be "bent" from having to bear the "great weight" of the Ring, but the cloak he will be wearing is the cloak of Lorien. The vanishing act he will pull "into the twilight" will be both his walking-through-darkness as he trudges through Mordor toward Mount Doom, and his final 'vanishing act' as he disappears into the "twilight" of the West.

Oh, and there are more connections here. The chapter that has described how Bilbo has "vanished" from the Shire (a very visible vanishing in terms of his prank at the party, if you know what I mean) now ends with another "vanishing" -- which makes sense since this chapter is all about the Ring, which when one puts on makes one "vanish into twilight" in the sense that one becomes a wraith under the "shadow" of the Dark Lord.

*whew* That Tolkien sure can put a lot of syntactic energy into the most seemingly simple lines.

Once again, I find it interesting that this moment alludes to both the good and the bad that awaits Frodo in his future: to both the dangers he must pass through (the burden of the Ring), the aid he will recieve (the cloak of Galadriel), and the two possible ends that await him: vanishing into the twilight of the Ring, or disappearing into the evening of the setting sun.
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:25 PM   #3
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I always liked the fact that this chapter was light hearted because the rest of the book is very serious. The happy beginning gives the reader courage to get through the darkest parts of the book. Plus I think that lots of the information is essential. Since the main characters are hobbits we should understand their culture and what is important to them.

To me the fact that Bilbo wants to see the elves again gives me feeling that although Bilbo had the ring for a long time and although the ring came very close to overtaking him it never did and it tells me that bilbo is very strong to withstand such power. Sure he had help but he still managed to do what Gollum could not.

(But then again Gollum is very different, however this chapter does not concern Gollum, doesn't he come in at Chapter three?)

The song, "The road goes ever on and on..." always made me feel happy and the song seems to say that there are so many things to do in the world that you just have to follow a road and you will see many new things that will sweep you up into a new experience.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:47 PM   #4
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Early on in the 1st Chapter we can see a reflection of Tolkien’s own life with Frodo. Frodo becomes an orphan and is taken in by the rich Bilbo. Tolkien himself was orphaned and taken care of by Father Morgan, although the riches part didn’t exist for Tolkien.

The older I get, the more hilarious the rest of the chapter becomes. Family politics at its best. And what’s more, it is probably going on within your own families as we speak. It does in mine.

The Sackville-Bagginses think that Bilbo is going to leave them Bag End, then Frodo becomes the Heir. Otho and Lobeila go to the party but they can’t stand Bilbo. This one can’t figure out why that one would marry into that family and so it goes on. We have Bilbo as the ’black sheep’ in the family because he doesn’t behave in a way that seems Hobbit like. Tell me that it doesn’t all sound familiar in your own family.

A little later in the chapter the family fun continues with Frodo handing out the gifts that Bilbo has left for them. This part always reminds me of when a will is being read, people always seem a little disappointed with what they get. Then Otho and Lobeila what to see the will to check all is in order, because they wanted the money LOL.

We’re also introduced to the Ring again. Firstly, through Bilbo using it and his reluctance to leave it behind. Then about the story Bilbo used to tell everyone about how he obtained the Ring, which is interesting - why do you suppose he lied about it ? Also, it would seem at this point that Gandalf is beginning to believe that this is perhaps the One Ring.
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Old 06-22-2004, 01:27 AM   #5
Saraphim
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Yes, Arkenstone, I completly agree with your post! I see a bit of Bilbo in myself. At family gatherings, I always have relatives avoid topics that could lead me to begin talking in any way contrary to thier conservative beliefs.

Bilbo was once a good, social type hobbit, doing all the right things and conversing in all the right groups, until, that wandering wizard sent him on a ridiculous quest. And then, he went and adopted Frodo, and began turning the poor lad into a young version of himself.

The town was never the same.

Although, I do see a sense of intrigue in the mannerisms of those gossiping down at the Ivy Bush, when the locals press the Gaffer for information. The interogators seem dissapointed when they hear of how little treasure Bilbo was said to have accumulated. And then, of course, the younger hobbits insist that there must be hidden tunnels full of gold and jewels, and must be extricated from the cellar.

They seem (beyond a liking for wealth, which is common enough) to be thuroughly enjoying Bilbo's eccentiricity, and tend to be dissapointed when thier expecations are not lived up to.
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Old 06-22-2004, 01:58 AM   #6
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I also agree with your post, Arkenstone. What delighted me about scenes in the first chapter and especially in the the scene at the Ivy Bush is that it gave us an insight into hobbit life and their petty likes and dislikes (e.g. Gaffer disliking Ted Sandyman 'even more than usual'). The Shire reminds me of a very sheltered place, with inhabitants who love to gossip and chat about the most eccentric people and relieve old tales and even 'bigger' things such as dwarves and dragons. Whether this has any correlation to the environment and community Tolkien lived in, I can't say as I haven't read any biographies on him (yet).

In post #14, Fordim Hedgethistle said-

Quote:
Can anyone say "foreshadowing"? Is it just me or is Gandalf here being presented as a precursor to Frodo who will, in the future, be "bent, almost as if he was carrying a great weight" as he walks into Mordor. Frodo will also be a "cloaked figure" who "vanish[es] into the twilight."
I never thought of that before, and it's a very interesting thought. I believe that your right, as Tolkien has used foreshadowing in this book (i.e. Frodo's dream in Bombadil's house) and that most, or even all, 'little' interconnections in the book should be taken as intended ones, as his world is so diverse and intricate down to the smalles detail.
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Old 06-22-2004, 02:24 AM   #7
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I would like to point out how Tolkien's knowledge of English onomastics plays a part here. All of the names you will see on that map either are or could be real English place names. Newbury in Buckland bears the same name as a Berkshire market town, just as there really are places called Stock and Bucklebury. Michel Delving on the White Downs bears a striking resemblance to Micheldever near Winchester, which is also situated on some chalk downs, as are much of Berkshire and Oxfordshire. Tolkien holidayed more than once in Lyme Regis and Sidmouth, and there is an echo of the Devonshire town of Honiton in the centre of the narrative. All in all, for the English reader, this is supposed to be familiar territory
This has always struck me - the 'Englishness' of the world of the Shire - to the extent that I was deeply surprised that readers from other countries could relate to the story at all. I can't help asking the (probably unanswerable)question, whether English readers understand/experience the Shire & its inhabitants differently from readers in other countries (as, I'd assume, a Russian would understand/experience, say, War & Peace differently to a non Russian). Or, if you're not English, are there parts of your country that feel like the Shire - Hope this is not too far off topic, but the effect of the opening chapter on myself (& like Squatter I'd include the map of the Shire in with the first chapter) is to place me in a world which I recognise - landscapes, placenames, personal names, etc - so that the sense of 'menace' is more intense & disturbing because its happening 'at home', as it were. If you come from a country/culture which is very diferent from the one described, do you identify with the Shire, or does it feel more 'alien' to you. Or to put it another way, does the Shire feel like the familiar & 'everday' world to everyone, or does it have the same kind of 'otherness' about it as Lorien or Gondor - does anyone start the book with the feeling that they're [I]already[/] in another world?
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