The Ambassador's Son Discussion Thread

[piosenniel]

My vote is for the posting on the game to begin . . .

~*~ Pio

[Himaran]

Always one for the wise, sentimental statements, aye Pio?

IMPORTANT!\

Graring made contact with the corsairs. They are going to raid the Gondorian shore area. Since Callath and the other Gondorian saw them, perhaps they can run back and alert the Gondorians to the coming fight. Just so the corsairs won't humiliate them too badly....

If this is to be played out, it must be done today! Tomorrow, Papa Doran arrives.

Himaran

[Nuranar]

This is so terrific, having everyone back on board! Pardon the pun - it was NOT deliberate.

I'll be posting later today about the raid on the Gondorians by Graring's pals.

Sure, let's rub out Devon. Someone's got to go! But I'm also wondering about the others. As Earendil said, we really need to get this sorted out before the last battle. Mainly I'm curious about Avershire, Meri and Sedal.

Also keep in mind that in my post in the brig I specified there were barely a dozen prisoners. That means that, including Devon, Callath, Calnan, Telson, and Rakekin, there are 5 survivors already - and not mentioning who didn't survive the wreck. I'm nervous about killing all of Maika's characters, but ... it's not realistic for everyone to survive a wreck, much less wash up on shore within a hundred yards of each other. And neither is it realistic to have all our characters survive and lose only the "expendable crewmen." Any thoughts?

Carry on!
Nuranar

[Amanaduial the archer]

I know what you mean, Nuranar, but...well, no one too drastic. Certainly at least one NPC who has been more frequently mentioned should die...well, I think so, what do you think?

Nuranar - do you know whether Maika will be coming back before the end of the game at all? I know we have sort of said the game will finish without her, but if there is a chance, it isn't really fair to kill off her favourites, like Avershire. After all, as he has a bio, he is, technically, a played character.

Marx is obviously already dead.

Avershire - to kill him off would be quite a large step actually. Do you know if she had any plans for him? Possibly it would be better for him to go down fighting, but then, it would be a massive blow to moral if he was found dead. The arguements for and againsts seem to even up there.

Lolliway - the silent conflict between Meri and Calnan was quite interesting, I thought. Possibly Avershire could be dead and she alive? Maybe she and Calnan could fight together or something, she covers his back and the debt kinda gets sorted that way? Or, alternatively, she could die and behold the waves of guilt upon Calnan...(unintentional pun, I never realised how much the sea comes up like that! )

Sedal - I don't suggest that the surgeon dies, actually. I would quite like it if Sedal lived. But maybe....well, maybe I am being morbid, but he could have sustained some serious damage in the fight - maybe a mast fell, hitting one arm? Anyway, maybe I am just being harsh, but maybe he lost an arm...*evil*

Luc - Now, pity for the boy, but I think Luc would actually be perfect to get rid off. He has been mentioned frequently in my posts, in several references in Maika's and in a few of yours, Nuranar, so he is quite a well known NPC, without too much of his mind being known. For him to have been killed would be a big blow to Callath - they were getting quite close having worked together. One condition, if I may - if he does go, Callath gets to find him? Chop, I say.

Yulman - mentioned a few times in posts by myself (and Maika?) at one point - he's the drunk, rather ripe older sailor who was being treated at Callath and Sedal's meeting, if you remember? Maybe not. Here is the description from Maika:

age unknown, looks anywhere between 40 & 70 loud boisterous sailor, who gets drunk most of the time, has the stamina of any sailor

Bearing in mind the sparseness of the description, I doubt there were any real plans for him. I reckon the fiery old bugger would have gone down fighting, too stubborn to give in. Chop, I say.

Packs - barely mentioned. Maika has mentioned him in the speech of Sedal and Avershire say...once? Another 'random' character with a rather sparse description.

a theological man, smart, but somewhat sickly

This didn't really come across at all. *shrugs* Chop, almost certainly.

Blake - this would be the helmsman. That's all he's described as. Bearing in mind the barrage that was raining down upon them in the attacks, I think it's actually a little unrealistic if he isn't dead. Like Packs, quite a definite chop.

Frenchy - I think Maika probably had plans for him. A loyal follower of Avershire, quite close it seems as well - he was the second mate. Quiet, lean, tall, red hair - rarely mentioned, but probably would take over in Avershire's stead if the Captain was dead or missing. This could either cause a clash with Devon which would be interesting...or shall we just get rid of him to save the problems?

Portie - Never mentioned, as far as I can tell. In charge of reparations, pretty ancient in Middle Earth terms - average age of death is, what, sixty, seventy? This guy is put down as '80+'. Seriously, never mentioned. Chop, chop, chop...

Rilgari - Man, I think I mentioned him...once? Twice? Anyway, he barely featured in any posts and was another of the 'random' characters who Maika created - like a secondary secondary

shy, flaxen-haired boy of about 18 or 19.

However, similar as he is to Callath and sparse though his character may be, I would rather like him to stay alive. Please? If you want him to go though, that's fine.

Borger - I quote from our fearless leader once more:

poetic man of about 25 who has a good singing voice, is disliked by none

Sounds like an interesting, if useless, guy. However, I can't really recall him being mentioned - Nuranar, did you mention him once or twice? Anyway, featured once more twice maybe but pretty much nonexistant. Shall we chop?

Orda - Oh, everyone knows little Orda. You can't seriously kill him off....right?

If anyone else wants to have a closer look at the descriptions as Maika first has them written, they're on page seven in the Discussion thread - quite near the bottom, post #280.

Hope this is helpful,

-Ax

[Nuranar]

Thanks for the list, Aman! I love lists. One thing before I dive in: What under heaven is an "NPC"?

I know no more than you about whether Maika will return. I am half expecting her to at least check in before we're done, though. She's dropped out for a while before, but each time she's come back.

Avershire: He's a good, interesting character. She's created a lot of background with his corsair "roots," if you will. If we were to end him, I think there would have to be some sort of resolution. Re-instatement in Gondor's navy, for example, would be particularly appropriate. So let's keep him.

Loliway: I, too, enjoyed her conflict with Calnan very much; it was a lot of fun to write for. Maika had suggested that Calnan come to her rescue when she gets in a spot, thereby putting the guilt on her, since she'd effectively left him and Devon in the lurch. But I like your suggestion that she saves him, demonstrating her attitude change instead of leading to it. Then we wouldn't have to deal with her emotional turmoil after the fact, either. If she were to die: First, that'd be pretty tough on Avershire, and we'd have to deal with his reaction (and for such a multi-faceted character that'd be difficult, I think). Second, Calnan really wouldn't be the one with the guilt; I'd indicated that he'd pretty much forgiven her already. She was the one who couldn't stop thinking about it. So then, let's keep her too, and I can put the saving bit into the raid (that I'm in the middle of writing right now).

Sedal: By all means, injure the surgeon. I don't think losing an arm is the best way to do it, though. If it's actually torn off in the wreck, he'd inevitably bleed to death in a few minutes. My medical knowledge is sketchy, but I'm sure that to have any chance at all he'd need an immediate tourniquet. That requires both someone to apply it and the opportunity to do so properly. In a combined storm and fight, that's not real likely. Plus there's the effect of hypothermia on a man weakened by severe blood loss. I just don't think he'd survive such a wound. Now, after all that, I'm at a bit of a loss about what other injury he could actually sustain. He could certainly break something, I think, so long as it's not compound (def: bone breaking the skin). We could even deal with a broken leg if we need to, and that's a pretty severe injury. Sorry for the long-winded explanations; any thoughts?

Luc: I could never find a bio for him, although he appeared quite a bit in your posts, so I used him only a little. Your reasoning for axing him is very good, so let's do it. Please post Callath's gruesome discovery at your pleasure.

Yulman: Actually, I think he would've died even before the capture. I looked up your post, and in it he lost his right eye and broke his left leg. Broken legs, especially in the, um, period at which we're setting this, are pretty serious, and I don't think there's any way he could have lasted through the two fights we had after that, even if he could've struggled upright. So I think he's already dead.

Packs: For the surrender post I wrote, I chose him as the seaman who bandaged up Calnan's head. Later in that post he gets spitted by a corsair. So he's already dead too.

Blake: I remember him being mentioned, but that's about it. And since the helm is so exposed, it's most likely he's already gone too. Wow, a real killing spree we seem to be on, ain't it!

Frenchy: Maika indirectly killed Frenchy in the first battle. See her post on March 13, in Devon's conversation with Callath. Marx becomes third mate since Frenchy was killed.

Portie: Yup, never mentioned. Bye-bye!

Rilgari: Sure, let's keep him. And technically, it's more likely that someone young and strong like him would survive being shipwrecked. Keep him, by all means, and especially since I've scratched off, let's see, 6 characters in a row!

Borger: He's working the catapults with Rilgari in the first battle, and it doesn't look like I mentioned him. (Thank heaven for the "Find" button on my toolbar!) I don't see any need for him, and if he was a mate of Rilgari's, that might faciliate a new friendship between he and Callath. They'll both have lost a friend.

Orda: I'd hate to lose Orda, too. Maybe he can be the one who sticks by Sedal when he's hurt? Like Ben-Hur and Quintus Arrius - keeping the injured guy above the water.

For one you didn't mention: Talon: old and balding, fiery and rude, very superstitious. He, as second mate, led a boarding party onto the Regal Dawn (second battle), but he's not mentioned after that. Still, it wouldn't hurt to have another seasoned fighter on our side. Tentative keeper? I'll check when I total things up below.

Okay, this is 13 characters. Add Devon, Callath, Calnan, and Telson; that's 17. Take away Frenchy, who died early; that's 16. We can have only about 12 who survived to be captured.

For survivors: Devon, Callath, Calnan, Telson, Avershire, Loliway, Sedal, Rilgari, and Orda = 9. Add Talon, and that's 10. That's a phenomenal survival ratio for a group of wounded prisoners shipwrecked at sea and cast ashore! If it's all right, then, let's keep just the 9 and I'll change my post to say that we had about 20 Gondorians imprisoned. How will that do? I'll make a list for reference, and if there are more suggestions I'll edit them in:

Gondorian Survivors
Devon
Callath
Calnan
Telson
Avershire
Loliway
Sedal - seriously wounded
Rilgari
Orda
Rakein

Gondorians Lost at Sea or Previously Dead
Marx
Luc
Yulman
Packs
Blake
Frenchy
Portie
Borger
Talon

One last thing before I get back to my post - writing it, that is (ah! these nautical/military metaphors!): Now that the North Wind is gone, and especially since we're no longer at sea, Avershire is not the Gondorian leader. Technically he's only a volunteer, he and all the crew, including Loliway. We could very easily have some conflict with that, since I think it's perfectly in character for him to assume command. Aman, you hinted at that very well in your post, indicating how Callath realizes the difference between being at sea and being on the land.

The logical thing is for Devon to reassert his leadership. But I'm having difficulty with this: First, he's only 17. Not to run down 17-year-olds, but he definitely lacks experience in leading a desperate campaign like this. Also, I'm not sure the rest, at least those of the ship's company, would feel a lot of confidence in his leadership. On the other hand, it was his enthusiasm and determination to oppose Doran that got this resistance movement going in the first place. Second, he's been wounded, not terribly, but seriously enough, and in a way that has handicapped his fighting ability. It seems that he's recovered a bit, as Maika's post of April 19 indicates, but he was feeling pretty emotionally upset at partially losing the use of his arm. How unnerving would that be for a teenager? Could he pull himself together in time to lead an effective last-ditch defense against the corsairs on the island? Third, Devon's creator is not writing for him! How hard would it be to not merely carry his character, but all of us in concert consistently write him as a leader?

Avershire may instinctively assume command, but he's a seaman, first and last. May I venture to say that Calnan, growing up in Ithilien, as the son of a Ranger, probably knows the most about skirmishing on land? I know Telson has seen military service, but not guerrilla type. From his bio, it seems that although he's a fighter, he's not voluntarily a leader of men. Not that Calnan does that either, I think, but he's good at seeing the best course and stepping up to take charge if no one else is.

So, IF it's ok with all of you, I think I'm going to write how Calnan ends up taking charge. It'll be unobtrusive, I think, although he'll need to at least show Avershire where his authority ends. I'm not going to wait for feedback, because time is now of the essence - I don't want to get run over by "Papa Doran." (Himaran, where did THAT come from?!) But I promise to heed all comments and make any necessary changes.

Here are the issues that I'd appreciate any feedback on:
* How Loliway and Calnan are reconciled
* Devon's attitude / state of mind / physical condition
* Nature of Sedal's wound
* Calnan taking charge

Profuse apologies for the length of this post. I guess I had a lot to say, although I didn't know it when I started! Carry on!
~ Nuranar

[Arvedui III]

Ack! So much in so little time! Sorry for my absence, all. I really wish life didn't have to keep making me apologize for the same thing. I've read what's been thrown out and everything looks fine to me.

As to nature of Sedal's wounds, I don't mean to be sadistic, but broken ribs are quiet painful. Brake a lot of ribs and it's also quite hampering. Perhaps he took a heavy blow from something during the storm and Orda got him up onto driff wood to ride it out. It wouldn't be too hard to recover from, but might handicape him sufficently. I don't pretend to know anything about ribs or bones, though, so that might be completly bogus.

Maybe I should just embrace my sadism, because one of the best ways I see the Calnan and Meri thing coming to a forfilling end is with Lolliway's death, perhaps sacrificing herself for Devon or something. It would be a nice arc for her character and give Avershire and Calnan plenty to deal with.

And as to Calnan taking charge, it seems logical enough to me. Telson would probably want command if it were only him and Callath, Calnan and Devon, but wouldn't feel comfortable leading a group anyone older or possibly more experienced than himself. He most likely would back up Calnan and try to act as a sort of executive offier to make sure he was a part of whatever happens.

I have no idea about Devon. I think he'd probably become much more determined during the battle, but anything short of that and I think he'd be far too shellshocked to do much.

I'll try to get a post working soon. And, oh yeah, if it still matters, I vote Yea. *evil*

[Nuranar]

Glad you're back, Arvedui. I've just posted, and incorporated your suggestion about broken ribs for Sedal. Excellent idea! Very inhibiting, not overly serious (unless a lung is punctured ), and extremely likely to happen, under the circumstances.

About Calnan and Meri - maybe I moved too fast, but I've already wrapped it up. And maybe I'm a coward, but the thought of sorting out the angst of any characters, whether Meri, Calnan, Avershire, or a combination thereof, is really intimidating. Meri's back on board, and kinda supports Calnan & Co. against Avershire taking charge. Is that ok?

One more note: As I've been writing, I've had the assumption that Telson helped Devon survive the wreck, and also keep a dirk. (Midshipman's weapon, if that helps. ) I figured with a bum arm Devon'd have a tough time keeping hold of any wreckage without help. I never actually came out and said so in the post, though.

Everyone: If I've used your character too much, I'm very sorry! This post ended up like that, and I especially wanted to make sure not to leave anyone out.

We're into the next day, after Graring has found his buds. One corsair took off after the fight; I headed him toward the interior, Himaran, so if you want him to be Graring setting off on a life of hermitry, please do so. Otherwise, maybe he'd be last in line and slipped away when he saw the Gondorians attack? Your choice.

The Gondorians are established in a semi-defensable position near the coast; I hope the description is clear. If any Gondorians want to post, please do so before Earendil writes Doran's D-Day Thursday evening.

Oh, and in my summing up of survivors I forgot to mention Rakein. Sorry, Durelin! I've corrected that in my list above.

Anything else? My requests for feedback still stand.

Carrying on,
Nuranar