Writers out there - what about genders?

[Olorin_TLA]

I know this is going to be off-topic, but in resposne to Imladris, physically women can be just as capable as men (especially when trained...because when faced with 2 well-trained athletes, of different genders, I doubt many people would have much of a chance of winning) and I can't see what you mean when you say there are some things they simply can't do. And not needing a hobbit to kill a foe is hardly stretching real ity.

[Imladris]

First of all, I never said that you needed a hobbit to kill a foe. I said that I liked that Eowyn wasn't super woman and that she needed Merry's help to kill the Witchking.

Second of all, women are weaker than men. Why else were they referred to as the weaker sex, why else was it always the man's duty to protect them in all the old myths and legends, etc. Now, that does not mean to say that they cannot become as strong as a man. I never ever said that they could not.

[The Saucepan Man]

As anyone who has read 'Brainsex' will tell you, men and women have different qualities. Women tend to score more highly on intuition and empathy than men, for example. Of course, that is an "on average" statement. You will of course find women who are physically stonger than some men, just as you will find men who are more intuitive than some women. There may be qualities that are required in your story that might better suit a female character. But equally, I would say that there is nothing wrong with having a physically strong female character. Properly written, the 'warrior princess' can be just as credible a character as the 'wise woman'. Indeed, both could be credibly combined in the 'wise female warrior'. I would see nothing wrong with a female Aragorn-type, as long a she was credibly written.

Although none of them, of course, would be able to read a map properly.

*Ducks flying objects*

[Niluial]

I agree with you completely Saucepan Man! Both sexes have different qualities like woman are more the mothers and the loving type while men are the protectors. As we have all said there are exceptions though.

Personally I like using men as main characters, rather then woman. I think it looks pathetic when you have some beautiful woman kill ten strong men, walk out of the fight with her hair in a bit of a messed and maybe a broken nail. It looks unnatural and odd... I agree with Imladris!

I find most heroines to be blithering idiots who think they can fight better, etc.

Agreed...

[Nurumaiel]

The majority of my main characters are males.... actually, reviewing those books I have written, I can't think of one where the main character was a female. Setting aside, RPGs, of course.

While I have female characters in my books, they're never main characters. Perhaps the hero's mother, or sister, or sweetheart... I already mentioned this on this aywsf thread, but I'll say it again: the book I'm currently writing finds the characters in the midst of a war, and in the world I created (or rather, the world that created itself using my head) women just don't go to battle. Therefore there are only brief appearances of women in the book, though a little girl of about seven years old is telling me she wants to occupy a chapter or two... but she assures me not until the second book.

I don't think I'm that bad at portraying male characters, because in all truth the only females I know I hardly ever see (if ever) so it is much easier to pick up on what men/boys say, do, feel, and think.

I find most heroines to be blithering idiots who think they can fight better, etc.

I find most of them the same way, though of course there are exceptions (as had been said many, many times). For a beginner at creating characters I would say don't let your main female character ever touch a sword or any kind of weapon. When one is more experienced they can work out females that can fight, etc. but aren't the classic.... Mary-Sues? I've noticed that many beginners like to make their females warriors because they can do more exciting things, but they don't know how to handle it so they're original female warriors. Tolkien knew how to do that. Eowyn wasn't one of those blithering idiots.

When I write a female character they're just that... not women in pants with swords, with battle skill. They're like all the lassies I know (or most of them). Those who can sew and knit and weave, who are found in lovely dresses they or their mothers made with petticoats and long stockings (and who won't talk about them around men/boys, as I probably shouldn't be doing now ), who are patient loving mothers, faithful lovers, or sweet caring sisters. If the 'warrior' character is well done I don't mind reading it too much, but I don't write it.

And that's how I do it.

[alaklondewen]

I think some interesting issues have been raised on this thread, and I hope it will not turn feministic debate. I'm guessing that most of us writing fan fiction or in RPGs are placing our characters in Tolkien's world. Middle Earth is fantasy, but being thus it is still based in reality. Tolkien had a amazing gift of writing his world so that it became very real. If we say ME is based on Midieval culture, then we have to look at the social norms of that time on which to base our characters. Men and women had different roles...

With that said, I don't know whether I prefer playing one gender over the other. It seems to me that my characters write themselves. I read a proposal or get an idea for a story and the character is already there...needing to be written. All I have to do it put the pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard). My female characters are not fighters...they are soft, intuitive, sometimes catty. My male characters are all very different from one another, so I would not be able to categorize them.

I can say that I do prefer to challenge myself with characters that are diverse and all very different from myself (with the exception of one a year or so ago). I don't like to write characters like myself. It could be that I don't find my own experiences 'exciting' enough, or it could be that it makes me nervous to reveal too much of my own inner struggles through a character that is very much like me.

[Child of the 7th Age]

OK, I am going to throw a ringer in the works here by disagreeing with everyone.

The enchanting thing with fantasy is that you are the creator of a world, and you are also the one who sets the rules for that world. Why can't you have a world, for example, where women wield power and men occupy a subsidiary role? Or perhaps a world of Skinchangers where both men and women can morph into the form of dangerous beasts, and are therefore essentially equal?

Even in Middle-earth there is room for variety. It is true that Tolkien utilized women sparingly in fighting roles. But I think it may be short sighted to divide the world into those who fight and those who stay home, with nothing in between. If Gandalf had been looking for someone with brute force who was a miraculous fighter, he would never have picked Bilbo. In such a scheme, Hobbits would be useless! But he thought more creatively, and came up with a character who would have certain physical and cultural limitations placed on him.

When you stop and think about it, this isn't too different from the type of limitations that would be placed on a "typical" woman. Morever, it's precisely because of those limitations that many of us can identify with Hobbits. If I think of myself trying to emulate Arwen or Aragorn in real life, I practically roll over laughing. A typical hero or heroine, I am not! But a Hobbit who lives in a Burrow, runs around cooking meals, and fussing at his children a la Samwise....that I can understand .

Even if you create a 'conventional" woman character, there are many roles that he or she could take on: roles that require dexterity or the ability to conceal oneself; a quick thinker who can get people out of a jam, a mother protecting her young children, a woman gifted in music or a craft, or, of course, the wise woman who has deep knowledge of lore. The list is endless.

I enjoy depicting both male and female characters. But, to be truthful, I think I have more insight as to how a woman thinks and acts. I do like to "break" other stereotypes in writing, such as women who are older and/or unmarried, or pehaps with physical limitations, or extraordinary gifts of one type or another but not necessarily the gift of hack and whack! So perhaps, there is more room for female diversity within Middle-earth than first comes to the eye.