‘Canonicity’: the Book or the Reader?

[bilbo_baggins]

I do believe that this Thread has transcended anything Tolkien-related. How far will it go? How long will the faithful posters reply to each other before their collective creativity dies?

I do believe that question is unanswerable as the repliers on this thread have no intention of stopping. I'm reminded of some sort of endurance race for some strange reason:

"Yes, people, they're coming around the bend with davem and Heren-Istarion in the lead, followed closely by Child, Aiwendil, Mark12_30, and many more! Just look at them go! Will they ever stop? They're not slowing down, not a bit; no giving up in this race, folks! No one could even think of letting it slow down a bit, even if that means everyone would think more clearly and be able to reply to all the latest posts! How exciting this is!"

The argument of Truth (absolute or individual) is a spiritual one and a little socio-political. Do you really believe that any resolution can be acheived? Highly unlikely. Do you really believe that one will conform to your viewpoint? Unlikely in the extreme. Do you believe that we can actually reach some conclusions to this argument? Perhaps.

I hope I don't sound irritated or frustrated with the turn of events. I actually quite enjoy them.

I hope this sort of sums up the current flow.

[Son of Númenor]

I would say, Bilbo_Baggins, with no disrespect intended, that your post does a most inadequate job of summing 'up the current flow'. I personally am fascinated by the discussion, & encouraged by the multitude of allusions, analogies & philosophical insights being made, all of which add to my own rather delicate understanding of these concepts of canon, Truth vs. truth, eucatastrophe, & that most elusive of feelings - 'enchantment' - as they pertain to Professor Tolkien's writing.

The range & depth of this discussion stray far beyond my own credentials as a Tolkien enthusiast & literary analyst, but I would like to say that I sympathize with Davem when he says:

If I use ‘Truth’, however much I repeat that I’m not talking about some set of rules & regulations, I just get asked what rules & regulations I mean, & told that rules & regulations are BAD. If I use the term Joy, it is immediately dismissed as meaningless, or conflated with pleasure. If I use the term God or Heaven I get accused of trying to convert people. I’d use the word Magic, but I suspect it would be interpreted to mean ‘conjuring’ & I’d be asked to explain the ‘trick’. ‘Light’ seems to be acceptable – yet this light must have a source.

Sorry, but I can’t reduce what I’m referring to to something which fits within a narrow definition, & can be argued about from a psychological perspective, or a deconstructionist one. If all anyone gets from reading Tolkien’s works is something that can be reduced to that level, then I will go all the way out on this limb & say they’re missing the ‘truth’ of the story.

Trying to quantify & simplify the 'truth' that we obtain from Tolkien's works is bound to be a fruitless endeavour. While I do not feel that there is any ultimate Truth readily available for us as readers to extract from Tolkien's work, I do feel Tolkien imbued his works with a plethara of ideals & virtues - a wide spectrum of things that Tolkien wished to convey to the reader as 'truths' - 'rights' & 'wrongs' that he felt are inherent both in his world & our own.

I agree with Child of the Seventh Age that Tolkien's writing does not have to be relegated to the role of upholding & advancing any singular religious Truth. There may, however, be a Theme inherent in Tolkien's works consisting of many smaller ideals & author-perceived 'truths' which Tolkien hoped would be applicable to everyday life in the Primary World.