Friends of Nimrodel: Tapestry of Dreams - Discussion - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 05-04-2004, 08:15 PM

Tolkien exercised one very critical element of language that most of his followers tend to overlook...... contraction. Many words in Sindarin and Quenya, I recollect, are built from compounds of smaller words. The new word almost never contains every last letter and syllable of the two words used. If I had any smarts at all, or time, I'd do some research to back this up, but well......

Anyway, Nethgwador is a case in point. Some aspect of the word would disappear, that which the tongue passes most lightly over in the language. You can see this all over the English language.

Kneel. ... knife..... thought..... through...... notice the silent letters? They weren't always silent. the latter two were spoken with a guttural in the throat, like a dog growling, I suppose. Hard to do. No wonder we don't anymore.

Back to Nethgwador. Say it fast. Notice what starts to disappear when you say it fast enough? The Elves, I'm thinking, intuitively know what letters are going to drop out of a compound word, and would name accordingly, especially taking into account the daily wear and tear.

So I'll make a suggestion or two on this account, base on my own attempts to say this name really fast: Nekwador. Nethador. Nethwador. The latter may be the best one. You decide.

alaklondewen · 05-05-2004, 06:56 PM

I edited and added an extra scene onto post #161.

littlemanpoet · 05-05-2004, 07:30 PM

Well, I get to point out my own mistake. Tolkien never, ever used the word, "tobacco", anywhere that I can think of in any of his writings. He talked about it aplenty, but always referred to it as "pipeweed".

Which makes my main point way better than I could. Two simple English words are combined in a whimsical, picturesque manner, such that the cured vegetable matter, imported from Spain, Virginia, or wherever, that Englishmen stuff in their pipe bowls, becomes a completely Hobbitish thing - from the South farthing no less, called pipe weed.

Does that do us any good regarding such words as "demand"? Heck, I'm still wracking my brain on that one. Anyway, I enjoy the challenge of trying to find ways of expressing things the way I imagine Tolkien would have. Okay, I'll be quiet with the linguistics stuff and try to get Ædegard and Raefindan in gear again.

Imladris · 05-06-2004, 04:08 PM

Lmp, even though I enjoyed your post immensely (go Raefindan!) you said that the merchant was an "overfed man" when in fact he is rather quite skinny...

Cheers!
Imladris

littlemanpoet · 05-06-2004, 08:20 PM

Oops. I fix. Sorry much!

alaklondewen · 05-07-2004, 06:48 AM

My last final is this morning and I will be back in the swing of things. I'm
*really* looking forward to writing with the group as a whole.

mark12_30 · 05-07-2004, 06:55 AM

You go, girl, and God bless your finals! See you soon.

05-05-2004, 06:56 PM	#2
alaklondewen Song of Seregon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Following the road less traveled Posts: 1,193	I edited and added an extra scene onto post #161. __________________ At last I understand why we have waited! This is the ending. Now not day only shall be beloved, but night too shall be beautiful and blessed and all its fear pass away!

05-05-2004, 07:30 PM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	eating crow.... Well, I get to point out my own mistake. Tolkien never, ever used the word, "tobacco", anywhere that I can think of in any of his writings. He talked about it aplenty, but always referred to it as "pipeweed". Which makes my main point way better than I could. Two simple English words are combined in a whimsical, picturesque manner, such that the cured vegetable matter, imported from Spain, Virginia, or wherever, that Englishmen stuff in their pipe bowls, becomes a completely Hobbitish thing - from the South farthing no less, called pipe weed. Does that do us any good regarding such words as "demand"? Heck, I'm still wracking my brain on that one. Anyway, I enjoy the challenge of trying to find ways of expressing things the way I imagine Tolkien would have. Okay, I'll be quiet with the linguistics stuff and try to get Ædegard and Raefindan in gear again.

05-06-2004, 04:08 PM	#4
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	Lmp, even though I enjoyed your post immensely (go Raefindan!) you said that the merchant was an "overfed man" when in fact he is rather quite skinny... Cheers! Imladris __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

05-06-2004, 08:20 PM	#5
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Oops Oops. I fix. Sorry much!

05-07-2004, 06:48 AM	#6
alaklondewen Song of Seregon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Following the road less traveled Posts: 1,193	My last final is this morning and I will be back in the swing of things. I'm really looking forward to writing with the group as a whole. __________________ At last I understand why we have waited! This is the ending. Now not day only shall be beloved, but night too shall be beautiful and blessed and all its fear pass away!

05-04-2004, 08:15 PM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	yet another little thang...... Tolkien exercised one very critical element of language that most of his followers tend to overlook...... contraction. Many words in Sindarin and Quenya, I recollect, are built from compounds of smaller words. The new word almost never contains every last letter and syllable of the two words used. If I had any smarts at all, or time, I'd do some research to back this up, but well...... Anyway, Nethgwador is a case in point. Some aspect of the word would disappear, that which the tongue passes most lightly over in the language. You can see this all over the English language. Kneel. ... knife..... thought..... through...... notice the silent letters? They weren't always silent. the latter two were spoken with a guttural in the throat, like a dog growling, I suppose. Hard to do. No wonder we don't anymore. Back to Nethgwador. Say it fast. Notice what starts to disappear when you say it fast enough? The Elves, I'm thinking, intuitively know what letters are going to drop out of a compound word, and would name accordingly, especially taking into account the daily wear and tear. So I'll make a suggestion or two on this account, base on my own attempts to say this name really fast: Nekwador. Nethador. Nethwador. The latter may be the best one. You decide. Last edited by littlemanpoet; 05-05-2004 at 07:23 PM. Reason: to remove offensive verbage

05-07-2004, 06:55 AM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	You go, girl, and God bless your finals! See you soon. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.