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#1 | ||
Stormdancer of Doom
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Mister Underhill wrote:
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If it was predictable, it would be something else. Quote:
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...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. |
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#2 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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Ah, Mr. Underhill
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For example, just which "right" interpretation of the Bible do you think is "indisputably correct'? Or the Koran? The history of reading as well as literary studies is littered with ships of correct interpretation which have foundered on the shifting shoals of historical perspective, cultural change, personal point of view. The point more properly is, I would think, not that all interpretations have equal merit but that merit can surprisingly derive even from misunderstanding. But really, Undey you are sounding rather too much like a fresh young newbie who claims he hasn't thought much about the topic. If you want to stir the pot, give it a bit more thought. ![]()
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 04-29-2004 at 09:11 PM. |
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#3 |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,744
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Ouch.
But really, Bb -- bringing the Bible into it is a bit unfair and likely to pull this thread irretrievably off course. Maybe you're right that I should have kept my mouth shut in the first place, but now that I have it open, I may as well insert my foot. I can think of a few LotR "interpretations" that seem fairly pat to me: It's a tale of Good vs. Evil. There is an organizing providential force at work in Middle-earth. Gandalf is wise. Sam is loyal. These may seem so simple and obvious as to be essentially worthless, but I think we could carry on like this until we have a base of interpretations about the text which are "true" for all but the most misguided and terminally contentious. If you can't do that, then nothing means anything. I can take any text and literally make it mean anything that I like. I am "free" to interpret Sam as faithless and Gandalf as a fool, just as I am "free" to think that up is down or that the earth is flat. But in this case, freedom is just another word for nothing left to talk about (apologies to Kris Kristofferson). Stories mean something. |
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#4 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Helen
Quote:'I don't see that he dismantled his M-E Legendarium (or canon) at all.' Well, yes, he changes his focus in Smith, but he seems to be saying Middle Earth is not a different 'secondary world' from Smith's 'Faery'. They are not so much different roads to the same destination, its more like they're the same world seen in different ways. Its like the difference between Archetypes & Archetypal images. We can never experience Archetypes directly. What we experience are Archetypal Images. So, in this sense both the Faery Queen in Smith & Galadriel are Archetypal Images, but the Archetype is always hidden & unreachable until it is given an image we can relate to. In the same way we could say that Gandalf, Merlin, Vainamoinen & even Obi Wan Kenobi & Dumbledore are all images deriving from the same archetype. So, Middle Earth & Smith's Faery are ' Images' of the same underlying Archetype. So while Middle Earth is fantastically detailed & rule bound, & any fiction set in that world must obey those rules & not contradict those details, any fiction set in Smith's Faery will not have to be so rule bound. But if both 'worlds' are the same place, then the 'rules' of Middle Earth are imposed only by that particular 'window' on Faerie. If we look at the same 'world' through a different 'window' we see Smith's Faery, & all the rules of Middle Earth have vanished. Sowhat of Tolkien's own earlier belief, the one that drove so much of his work on Middle Earth, that those details & rules are necessary if a secondary world is to be convincing? He certainly seems to have put that idea aside in presenting Smith's Faery to us. Its not 'realistic' in any way. Its simply a sequence of 'magical' images & scenes. It rejects all the rules for creating secondary worlds which Tolkien had put together & believed to be essential, yet it works, & is in many ways far more powerful in its enchantment than most of his Middle Earth writings. |
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#5 | |||||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Fordim:
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But, as Mister U and davem before him have said, why try to define and categorise a concept such as enchantment? Is it not better simply to enjoy the experience? And to disagree with you too Mr U: Quote:
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
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#6 |
Stormdancer of Doom
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The three last paragraphs in the essay below are an illustartion of Fruit being the result of leaf, trunk, root, and soil. Some wisdom from TORn's Tehanu
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#7 | |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,744
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Take an extreme example. I, for one, am not uncomfortable in condemning interpretations like those made by Stormfront (link is to a recent BD discussion, not a white supremacist site). And if there are patently wrong interpretations, doesn’t that imply that there are, indeed, right interpretations? I certainly agree that differences of interpretation will occur the more we get into details, and those are great and good. Vive le difference. I think we could get beyond simple propositions – indeed, the whole providence issue already might – and still agree before we cross over the border where anything goes. |
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