The source of Dragons

[NightKnight]

Who says they needed any female to reproduce?

Hermaphrodites?

I think the "dinosaur" theory is good. I mean, he had to use something to get dragons, since he couldn't create life. Maybe he kept a breeding ground north of Angband? Hmmm... This makes me think of the beasts the Nazgûl ride on. Where were they bred?

[Findegil]

What we can be sure of, is that Dragons do reproduce. The quote below is from Unfinished Tales; part 3: The Third Age; chapter III: The Quest of Erebor; sub-chapter: Extracts from the earlier version, it can be found also in The Annotated Hobbit; Apendix A: The Quest of Erebor where the earlier version is given in full.
Gandlaf had just communicated the idea of taking a Hobbit in to the compnay of Thórin.

"What!" cried Glóin. "One of those simpletons down in the shire? What use on earth, or under it, could he possibly be? Let him smell as he may, he would never dare to come within smelling distance of the nakedest dragonet new from the shell!"

Since Thórin had just before exclaimed that "Dwarves have had more dealings with Dragons than most, and you [Gandalf] are not instructing the ignorant", we are inclined to take this as a clear evidence that Dragons do reproduce by lying eggs. Thus it is quiet possible to bread them. But from what stoke Morgoth started or if they needed female counterparts is not made clear as fare as I am aware of it.

In this respect I tried to find the source of the idea of the dragons bread from eagles. I am nearly sure that it is somewere in The History of Middle-Earth series. And it must be in one of the earlier volumes. But I could not finde it. Anyway I think that it is fairly outdated and could not be taken seriuos.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Hookbill the Goomba]

As Falagar and NightKnight have suggested, the Dragons being Hermaphrodites would perhaps be the best idea. If Morgoth wanted a large army of Dragons, he didn’t want the Dragons to have to go through the whole candle light supper and meeting the parents business that male and female Dragons would have to do. So In the interest of Time saving, Melkor would have made them as Hermaphrodites, that is plane enough. We also assume that, as with anything, Melkor made the Dragons in Mockery of another creature, this we take to be Eagles. However, as the encyclopaedia of Arda says:

Of the origins of dragons, no tale tells; the first of them to be seen was Glaurung, Father of Dragons, who first issued from Angband in the middle of the First Age. After Glaurung came many others to strike fear into Elves and Men for the next three ages; among them were Ancalagon the first winged dragon, Scatha who dwelt in the cold northern wastes, and Smaug, last of the great dragons.

As dragons live, in the words of Thorin, "Practically for ever” and most of that time is spent on a pile of Gold or in battle, Dragons don’t seem to want to mate, so we can assume that they don’t. However, we can also assume that Dragons can only have a limited number of Eggs, seeing as, alike to hobbits, they are never seen nowadays, as they hide away in old dwarf mines on piles of riches, I assume. But;

The dragons were not destroyed at the end of the Third Age; some are said to have survived to our own time, but the great worms and drakes of the Elder Days are no more.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

The idea of hermaphroditic dragons is an appeasing one, but I was always under the impression that Tolkien's dragons weren't especially different from those of Medieval Legend.

Where did Glaurung come from? I definitely don't think he was a tortured Eagle or anything of the sort, after all dragons may have rivalled eagles but there are many more differences than say, an Elf and an Orc. Rather, I'd take more a story like how Sauron bred his Nazgul's Steeds. Some ancient creature (dinosaurs, anyone?), still existed in the pits of Angband, and Morgoth, using black magic, did horrible things to them (like splicing with huge wings and so forth) and inhabited their bodies with Fell Spirits, extroardinarily powerful ones. Clearly not the Valaraukar, but something of that kinship - spirits of fire and ruin that hailed from the beginnings of Middle Earth itself, not unlike a Bombadil, a Goldberry, or other more 'Fairy-Tale-ish' sorts of things to be found in Tolkien's world.

Obviously the concept of bloodlines were important to Tolkien and in the Lord of the Rings and it's companion books. Glaurung being the first, was "Father of all Dragons" because he was the first finished product of all these freak reptiles Morgoth bred, inhabited with a fell spirit and allowed to grow beyond nature's original intentions. Clearly there would have been females too, just none anything within the realm of Glaurung, and all more nesting creatures. It's likely before he was unleashed on the world, Glaurung had a whole herum of female reptilian monsters, with nests of eggs the likes of which Ancalagon, Scatha and Smaug all came from, although each would have been subject to being interjected with one of the evil spirits of Morgoth's servitude whether while in eggs, or just after hatching, or even after a certain growth.

Obviously the Nazgul's steeds weren't possessed by evil spirits, they were just steeds, whereas dragons spirits were likely the reason they grew into the terrifyingly powerful creatures they were.

[Osse]

People seem to undersestimate the powers of Morgoth... he was the most powerful being on Arda (Eru dosen't count as he isnt' on arda ). He has the ability to create, perhaps through a twisted song or chant as the other vala do- without needed anything as a base. There is no evidence of any Dinosaur-like-reptiles (you've such an imagination saucepan man ) and if they existed, the Professor would have at least hinted to them somewhere in all of his works, even if he had abolished the idea at a later time. I would tend to think that Morgoth created the dragons from scratch, or used something as harmless and simple as a gecko and using (dare I say it) his 'magic' corrupted, and mutated the creature/s into what we know as dragons... of course he isn't as good as he used to be so it'd take a few goes. He also had no idea what he really wanted or needed in dragons; the Gondolin crisis really spurred him to need wings on em


However long i ramble for... what i really am in severe doubt about is (soft drum roll) whether or not dragons were able to reproduce!

I would say no. However there is nothing for me to back this up on, there is nothing on the subject. Apart from the fact that dragons slowly diminished, and even with the numbers of those slain, if they were reproducing, the race would still survive somewhere, or even grow. This of course brings the age of Smaug debate back to mind, and it looks like i've caused myself and all you guys to go round in circles on things we've debated over and over again and thought we'd decided on...

I'd go with the fact that Smaug was old... (something once again we can't prove- also due to the fact that i think Tolkien hadn't decided either, or didn't think it'd really matter how old Smaug was.)


Sorry guys, but this topic dosen't leave me with much to go on for putting my theories forth. (and i know this is an old one but!) my books are all still in storage in another hemisphere.


<goes back to the deep>

Ossë

[The Saucepan Man]

He has the ability to create, perhaps through a twisted song or chant as the other vala do- without needed anything as a base.

He couldn't create a creature with sentience from scratch, just as Aule couldn't with the Dwarves. Although I suppose he could have created non-sentient creatures and imbued them with disembodied spirits. But I'll carry on indulging my imagination ( ) and stick with the dinosaur theory.

There is no evidence of any Dinosaur-like-reptiles

In a world containing a giant squid-like creature, Oliphaunts and the Nazgul's fell beats, I am inclined to believe in the possibility of such creatures having existed.

if they existed, the Professor would have at least hinted to them somewhere in all of his works

I would find it very surprising if there were not creatures living in those parts of Middle-earth about which we are told very little (Far Harad, for example) which Tolkien never referred too. Surely, Tolkien's works do not contain a complete catalogue of the entire flora and fauna of Middle-earth throughout the Ages.

Apart from the fact that dragons slowly diminished, and even with the numbers of those slain, if they were reproducing, the race would still survive somewhere, or even grow.

Not necessarily, if their mortality rate exceeded their rate of reproduction (Dodos reproduced, after all). Or, assuming that Dragons were not hermaphrodites, perhaps there were no females left by the end of the Third Age.

[galadriel'smaiden]

Didn't dragons die out by the third age?
I had read somewhere that had happened. Also, what about in North Wilderland, or the deserts to the south of Middle Earth...couldn't dragons still dwell there? I think it's a distinct possibility left up to the mind by Mr. Tolkein.