Revelations and Realizations

[Guinevere]

@Doug: I don't think that Tolkien in this letter used the word "nobility" in the sense of "aristocracy" , and giving the right to rule... I think he just meant nobility of the mind, and that some of the qualities of the Elves still live on in Men:

The Elves represent, as it were, the artistic, aestethic, and purely scientific aspects of the Human nature

(from letter 181)

About the descent from the House of Haleth: Halmir - Hareth (the wife of Galdor) - Huor - Earendil - Elrond

[Bêthberry]

Alas, Anarion, yes, Goldberry is one of those characters who seems simply to disappear off the radar after Frodo has his first experience of adoration with her. It was a sort of mini-revelation, though, I guess, and in her house Frodo does dream of the sea. Well, I guess she also gets to name him "elf-friend".

Still, a Persephone who is not in thrall to the Underworld raises all kinds of possibilities...

Bethberry

PS. Yes, I know, very tardy reply. The orcs of real life have that tendency to keep us away from middle-earth.

[Firefoot]

Something I just realized while rereading RotK is that the Red Book of Westmarch has 80 chapters ("the 80th chapter was left unfinished...") and the number of combined chapters for LotR and the Hobbit is 80 - 18 in the Hobbit and 62 in LotR. It makes a lot of sense, actually, but I thought it was pretty cool the way JRRT tied it all in together.

[NightKnight]

About Arwen's heritage: Not only does she have blood from the three elven races (Noldor, Vanyar, Sindar/Teleri (both)) and maia, she also has from all three houses of men: Bëor's house through Beren, Hador's house through Tuor and Haleth's house through Tuor's grandmother, Hareth. I actually calculated exactly how much it was from each, and I posted it somewhere in the ME Mirth forum.

[Carnimírië]

I must have read the poem that begins "From dark Dunharrow in the dim morning" at least five times, but I just realized that it's written in alliterative verse. I had never noticed that before.

Maybe it takes a long time for me to understand things, but I also just realized that "Forgoil" (Strawheads) is a sort of blond joke, the dark-haired Dunlendings use that name on the yellow-haired Rohirram.

[galadriel'smaiden]

Wow. I should visit my own threads more often. (smiley use excuse)

Kransha and Finwe-

Can we revisit the Faramir/Boromir/Imrahil thing? I am still way confused on thier relationship.

[Fingolfin II]

Imrahil's sister Finduilas is the mother of Faramir and Boromir- thus Imrahil is their uncle. He is also Eowyn's uncle-in-law (as she married Faramir).

Imrahil's daughter Lothiriel married Eomer, making Imrahil Eomer's father-in-law. Faramir is Eomer's brother-in-law, since he married his sister, Eowyn.

Here's a rough family tree below, including only Denethor, Faramir, Boromir, Imrahil, Lothiriel, Finduilas, Eomer and Eowyn. Oh, and it also contains Imrahil's father, Adrahil . Don't mind the dots- they're just there to space it out properly.

............................................Adrahil
......................................._____|_____ _
......................................|........... .......|
..............................Imrahil.............Finduilas = Denethor
..................................|............... ............____|____
..................................|............... ...........|.............|
...........................Lothiriel = Eomer*..Boromir....Faramir = Eowyn*


*Denotes that Eomer and Eowyn are brother and sister.

[ninlaith]

I just want to send something out into the void. Most think that it was J.K Rowling who came up with the black cloaked deamons and certain phrases but it was really....wait can you guess...YES! It was Tolkien. Many think J.K's dementors inspired the ringwraiths.....please.....look at the years between the books publishings and who came first, we're talking decades here. And the phrase "Something wicked this way comes!" Yeah that was Tolkiens as well. J.K deserves credit for her accomplishments, however, it is possible for writers to be inspired by other writers.

[Guinevere]

I am sure no one in this forum would think that, ninlaith!

"Something wicked this way comes!" I thought that was Shakespeare! (Macbeth)
And where in Tolkien's work did you find that phrase, pray ?

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by ninlaith

I just want to send something out into the void. Most think that it was J.K Rowling who came up with the black cloaked deamons and certain phrases but it was really....wait can you guess...YES! It was Tolkien. Many think J.K's dementors inspired the ringwraiths.....please.....look at the years between the books publishings and who came first, we're talking decades here. And the phrase "Something wicked this way comes!" Yeah that was Tolkiens as well. J.K deserves credit for her accomplishments, however, it is possible for writers to be inspired by other writers.

who is "most" ninlaith? I think alot of people -- well the ones who are time-concious esp. would disprove of such an idea.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

To go back a little bit the linking between the Rohan royal family and the House of Dol Amroth is even more convoluted thing is even more convoluted since in addition to the first cousins Faramir and Lothiriel marrying the siblings Eowyn and Eomer which would have made their children first and second cousins!!! Eowyn and Eomer were already akin to Imrahil because their grandmother Morwen of Lossarnach was despite her title a descendent of a Prince of Dol Amroth. Maybe a sister or aunt of Adrahil married teh lord of Lossarnach ....... you just hope they opened this up a bit before the noble visages of the Swan princes were afflicted by a Hapsburg jaw.....

YES!

[Morsul the Dark]

my great discovery sam and rosie had 13 children