we wonders, precious, we wonders *gollum* - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Saraphim · 04-08-2004, 09:52 AM

The idea of a Golem is that it is a servant of whoever creates it, right? Well, then look at Gollum himself. He was a essentially a servant of the Ring, which had created him from Smeagol to Gollum

Evisse the Blue · 04-09-2004, 01:25 AM

The Golem hypothesis is interesting, and I wouldn't discount it as a possibility. The fact that it was a contemporary invention does not make it less valuable. Like any legend/invention it served a certain purpose at that moment in history, in this case, the wishful thinking that one could fashion a creature from mud (with the aid of faith) who would then fight for his creator. What is very important about the Golem myth is that the Golem is said to be brought to life by writing a word onto the back of his hand: the Hebrew equivalent of 'life'. To bring it back to Gollum, consider what Saraphim said. Gollum's will was no longer his own, he was as much a servant of the Ring as the Golem was his master's. And also don't forget the power of words all throughout LOTR, (i.e., the Ring poem and its effect when uttered in Dark Speech at the Council of Elrond.

So, can we call it plausible?

It could also be the fact that he forgot how to laugh, as Imladris suggested, so 'gollum' would be a strangled attempt to show his pleasure, which now only derived from the Ring; or that he kept choking on fish (how often does one have to choke, though, before the sound he makes becomes his nickname?

). Call me crazy, but I actually tried immitating the sound many times, and it never came out right (as is described in the book). It sounds somehow unnatural. And I agree the movie sound is not at all how I imagined it when reading the book description if it. However these theories do not contradict the Golem hypotheses - while one is true in the context of the 'real life inspiration', the others are true in the fictious world of ME (

did I say fictious - I uttered a blasphemy!).

Anyway, the only certainty we have so far is ElanorGamgee 's post, the rest is speculation.

Well, I say, let's keep the speculations coming!

04-10-2004, 08:31 AM

i think it was like a nervours twitch that he had whenever he came in contact with the Ring. Maybe he just was trying to fit in... But it does only start when he gets the ring so it must be ring-related, or at least related to the effect that the ring has upon him. (not pretty)

Isowen · 08-08-2004, 02:27 PM

I think he was just shocked and it was like, you know when you cry a lot, and you find it hard to catch your breath, it must have been some kind of choking noise and it was the last thing he remembered.

04-08-2004, 09:52 AM	#1
Saraphim Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The other side of freezing. Posts: 404	The idea of a Golem is that it is a servant of whoever creates it, right? Well, then look at Gollum himself. He was a essentially a servant of the Ring, which had created him from Smeagol to Gollum __________________ I drink Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters! ~ Always remember: pillage BEFORE you burn.

04-09-2004, 01:25 AM	#2
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	The Golem hypothesis is interesting, and I wouldn't discount it as a possibility. The fact that it was a contemporary invention does not make it less valuable. Like any legend/invention it served a certain purpose at that moment in history, in this case, the wishful thinking that one could fashion a creature from mud (with the aid of faith) who would then fight for his creator. What is very important about the Golem myth is that the Golem is said to be brought to life by writing a word onto the back of his hand: the Hebrew equivalent of 'life'. To bring it back to Gollum, consider what Saraphim said. Gollum's will was no longer his own, he was as much a servant of the Ring as the Golem was his master's. And also don't forget the power of words all throughout LOTR, (i.e., the Ring poem and its effect when uttered in Dark Speech at the Council of Elrond. So, can we call it plausible? It could also be the fact that he forgot how to laugh, as Imladris suggested, so 'gollum' would be a strangled attempt to show his pleasure, which now only derived from the Ring; or that he kept choking on fish (how often does one have to choke, though, before the sound he makes becomes his nickname? ). Call me crazy, but I actually tried immitating the sound many times, and it never came out right (as is described in the book). It sounds somehow unnatural. And I agree the movie sound is not at all how I imagined it when reading the book description if it. However these theories do not contradict the Golem hypotheses - while one is true in the context of the 'real life inspiration', the others are true in the fictious world of ME ( did I say fictious - I uttered a blasphemy!). Anyway, the only certainty we have so far is ElanorGamgee 's post, the rest is speculation. Well, I say, let's keep the speculations coming! __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass. Last edited by Evisse the Blue; 04-09-2004 at 01:33 AM.

08-08-2004, 02:27 PM	#4
Isowen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The blackened depths Posts: 86	I think he was just shocked and it was like, you know when you cry a lot, and you find it hard to catch your breath, it must have been some kind of choking noise and it was the last thing he remembered. __________________ I hope Butterbur sends this promptly. A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber -room: Thing wanted always burried, If he forgets, I shall roast him.

04-10-2004, 08:31 AM	#3
greyeyedpirate17 Guest Posts: n/a	i think it was like a nervours twitch that he had whenever he came in contact with the Ring. Maybe he just was trying to fit in... But it does only start when he gets the ring so it must be ring-related, or at least related to the effect that the ring has upon him. (not pretty)