Evil things

[HerenIstarion]

from "this leads to" down to "The only 'change' they would consider 'good' would be a change that took them 'back'' to the way things were"

All of that may be the case, of course, and it sounds highly plausible (to the extent that I myself was considering almost the same, if not in same terms). But, and but again, if we still stay with Tolkien and haven't passed on to general philosopy, it is to be remembered that the only explicit textual evidence of what and how is to be after the completion of the Arda Marred is given in the quote provided in my previous. So it is to be trusted that for ME as imagery world (and for ours too, maybe) that is the truth, and the Arda Remade will indeed contain things eternally new. Still more, Finrods wording does not imply that 'forever beautiful and new' means 'unchanged'. Implication is assumed by you (I believe), as influenced by whole bulk of your own preceeding argumentation (which you are to be commended upon, by the way, kind sir) Eternal and indestructible need not mean frozen, just not subject to time and enthropy. So, as you yourself in one of your previous were defending the point that change is possible even without, or outside time, I believe it can be assumed here too?

"New" may mean also a bit more than it seemingly does - that the healed creatures will be given harmony with their milieu, so each instant of their lives they will retain capacity of perception everything as 'new' enabling them to appreciate everything they are given, invoking wonder and gratitude mixed with joy and happiness where previously, 'thanks' to Morgoth and as a consequence of the Fall, there were longing and boredom

Elf would have to choose one theme or the other to actualise, men have the freedom to pick & choose, & would be judged by Eru not on which theme they align themselves to & attempt to make 'real' but rather on what they do with what they take from either theme, because Elves cannot introduce change into the world, so they have a choice only between 'good' & 'evil', whereas men can bring good out of evil, as can Eru.

Here we come back to points we've got over up there. Seemingly, I was inattentive back than, for either I don't quite follow you, or your argument is wrong (or looks so to me):

For all I know, only Valar and Maiar are actually bound by what was sung, and at that they actualise exactly what each of them was singing at the time. That is not binding to the uttermost limit, rather defining, for they are capable of repentance (Sauron almost repents) That's why I have brought forth statement of world being fitted into pattern which is Music.

At that, Men and Elves are direct insertions of Eru, Eruhini, his children, the whole mode of being of which (i.e. union of eternal fea with temporal hroa) seems to be symbolic, indication of future arrangement, when matter will cease to be temporal and be equally eternal, and seems to set the direction of they development. At that, they have distinct functions - elves of preservation and memory, men of working future order out. Where it makes obligatory for elves to follow one thread only and for men to be free and picky, I fail to see.

Least of all I would accept "men can bring good out of evil", for men doing evil are evil (i.e. means are not justified by the end for the doer, or, Hitler's murderer may have averted much sorrow, but that would not have made him holy, he would still have been murderer). It is Eru who brings good out of evil, and in unexpected way, usually. But the 'tool' i.e evil-doer whos deeds resulted in new good, is not considered responsible for the good, he is still to be condemned on behalf of his evil deed. At that inverted commas around words Good and Evil are unwarranted, for both concepts are not mere conventions, but 'real thing' - either comply with [built-in by Eru as part of fea] standard or not. Which is matter of choice. And brings us back down to mere choice (hum) in whatever action elf or man takes, and which therefore is uttermost expression of freedom. And if goodness is the same (as, agian backed up with direct quote by Aragorn up there) for both and compliance to it is defined by choice, than the modes of their existence are similar, with the difference of men not being bound inside temporal field of Arda, which difference is expressed through death.

It could be down simply to the fact that Men were never 'told' what the 'ideal' was

may I be forgiven If Iutter minutely triumphant "aha!" first? For here you indirectly pour water on the Fall theory's mill wheels. Why, do you reckon, they were not told about the thing which is the main motive of their existence (apart from explicit Christian idea to be free beings other than God to be loved by Him), but for the Fall?

leaving the final form to them

May be, may well be, regardless of the Fall

PS. Since we are neck deep in philosophy by now, should we ask moderator to split our discussion (for we two are only participants for a while now) from the main thread starting at post where it began or a bit earlier, say, and make of it separete 'philosophy' thread? For title "Evil Things" is quite misleading. Your opinion?