Windy...cold...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Welcome to the Downs, Nimikôi Angarauko.

Elenrod puts on the hat of a Morgoth's advocate.

...i don't think one of the omnipotent powers would have the arrogance to mock the noldor in their day of greatest defeat.

It's not a mockery...it could be seen as more of a scolding. The Noldor still holding on to that last shred of pride instead of turning to the only one who could really stop Morgoth.

[davem]

I'm not sure how far one can push the Jungian conection. Jung's Archetypes are basically biological in nature. Synchronicity may play some part in the Great Storm of Notion Club & the Great Storm of the real world, both of which happen in 1987, but I'm not too sure. Its certainly one of the wierdest conections between the Secondary & Primary worlds.

From a Jungian point of view, storms (& Eagles) could be seen to symbolise an 'irruption' from the Collective Unconscious/spiritual level of reality into the mundane. Manwe's presence is constant throughout LotR - storms, Eagles, &, of course, Gandalf himself, one of the Maiar who served Manwe. That's all probably in the thread Saucepan Man has pointed us to, but I haven't got time to read through it at the moment!

[doug*platypus]

Ah, Nilpaurion Felagund, well observed. I'm now on my 6th (ish) reading of The Silmarillion and I'm finding countless small passages such as this taking on incredible significance. For a fairly small tome, it contains a huge amount of action and events. I personally missed the significance of the wind the first time round, but I would bet that yes it does mean something.

In my humble opinion it sounds more like an action of anger and frustration. A rebuke and a defiance of Melkor, whose despotic and sadistic actions become more evil as the tale unfolds. To me it seems to be an indication that the Valar may still be stirred to wrath against him. Of course, such emotions really are against the nature of Manwë, and I could be horribly wrong.

Gandalf himself, one of the Maiar who served Manwe.

Although Gandalf did serve the purposes of Manwë, wasn't he actually a Maia of Lórien, who did the odd job for Nienna now and then? Righto, off to that weather thread...

[davem]

Quote:

'Although Gandalf did serve the purposes of Manwë, wasn't he actually a Maia of Lórien, who did the odd job for Nienna now and then? Righto, off to that weather thread...'

Encyc of Arda gives:

A Maia of the people of Manwë and Varda, Olórin was said to be one of the wisest of his order. He came to Middle-earth in the Third Age in the guise better known as Gandalf.

Don't have the books to hand, so I (& E of A) may both be wrong.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

In the Silmarillion it is said that:

Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He too dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her learned pity and patience.

Valaquenta; The Silmarillion

And in the Unfinished Tales, it is explained that in early versions Gandalf was a counsellor of Irmo (Lórien); before this was changed and he became a maia of Manwë and Varda. Should this change have also been reflected by changing the place where Gandalf lived in Valinor? In my opinion, it is somewhat strange that a maia of Manwë lives in Lórien; but I may be wrong