She-elf? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Only Real Estel · 03-20-2004, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Surely in the great wordhoards of Rohan or the stacks of Gondor, such a word would be sh-elved as too arcane for popular use.

Nice jab

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Lyta_Underhill · 03-20-2004, 10:35 PM

I suppose I was too busy being miffed at the "give up the halfling" part to notice just how ridiculous "she-elf" sounded. The worst part of that exchange, to me, was the reducing of Frodo to the status of pawn or possession, something an elf could "give up," and I suppose I didn't much go for the whole Xenarwen turn, but I didn't mind Arwen replacing Glorfindel at that point. I guess the "she-elf" pejorative just rolled off my back as too ridiculous to worry about much with everything else that was twisted in that scene. It is a shame that it is making odd appearances in fanfiction. I'll have to keep the mouse poised over the "X" when I see it...

Cheers!
Lyta

Finwe · 03-22-2004, 09:36 PM

*puts on the hat of Devil's Advocate*

I think that the screenwriters were trying to interject some pernicious Nazgul vs. Elf hatred into the movie, by using that line. They probably wanted to show that the Nazgul were so confident in their (and their Master's) ability to daunt all their opponents that they would actually presume to order Arwen about.

*takes off the hat*

I still think that whole Nazgul vs. Elf thing would have worked out a lot better if the screenwriters had:

1) Kept Glorfindel in that role. (Well, in this case, even XenArwen would work.)

2) Had the Nazgul say: "Give up the Halfling, Elf!" or something to that effect.

Nilpaurion Felagund · 03-22-2004, 09:58 PM

The best way to have done the scene was to be faithful to the books. But one could only wish. *sigh*

"She-elf" was an insult to Arwen. Any fanfic writer using the epithet as a general term for the female of the Elder Kindred...well...should know that. The proper term would have been...

Quote:

Here elf and elf-maiden
Now welcome the weary...

(The Hobbit 19 - emphasis mine)

Silmiel of Imladris · 04-03-2004, 12:02 PM

This reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

King: Old Woman!

Peasant: Man!

King: Sorry, Old Man!

Peasant: I am 37.

King: What?

Peasent: I am 37. I am not old.

King: Well I can't just call you Man.

And they go on about not asking the peasent his name and blah blah blah.... Anyway maybe the Nazgul did know Arwen's name so he called her elf but he couldn't just call her elf so he called her she-elf not knowing proper manners.

dragoneyes · 04-10-2004, 03:13 PM

On the subject of terms used by novice Fanfiction writers, where in all of Middle-earth did the term 'hobbitling' come from? I have seen it a few times in various places and it refers to young hobbits. I can see ther might be a need for a hobbit equivalent of boy or girl, but hobbitling? Sounds like piglet or gosling.

03-20-2004, 10:35 PM	#2
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	I suppose I was too busy being miffed at the "give up the halfling" part to notice just how ridiculous "she-elf" sounded. The worst part of that exchange, to me, was the reducing of Frodo to the status of pawn or possession, something an elf could "give up," and I suppose I didn't much go for the whole Xenarwen turn, but I didn't mind Arwen replacing Glorfindel at that point. I guess the "she-elf" pejorative just rolled off my back as too ridiculous to worry about much with everything else that was twisted in that scene. It is a shame that it is making odd appearances in fanfiction. I'll have to keep the mouse poised over the "X" when I see it... Cheers! Lyta __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

03-22-2004, 09:36 PM	#3
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	puts on the hat of Devil's Advocate I think that the screenwriters were trying to interject some pernicious Nazgul vs. Elf hatred into the movie, by using that line. They probably wanted to show that the Nazgul were so confident in their (and their Master's) ability to daunt all their opponents that they would actually presume to order Arwen about. takes off the hat I still think that whole Nazgul vs. Elf thing would have worked out a lot better if the screenwriters had: 1) Kept Glorfindel in that role. (Well, in this case, even XenArwen would work.) 2) Had the Nazgul say: "Give up the Halfling, Elf!" or something to that effect. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

04-03-2004, 12:02 PM	#5
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Seems Familar... This reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail: King: Old Woman! Peasant: Man! King: Sorry, Old Man! Peasant: I am 37. King: What? Peasent: I am 37. I am not old. King: Well I can't just call you Man. And they go on about not asking the peasent his name and blah blah blah.... Anyway maybe the Nazgul did know Arwen's name so he called her elf but he couldn't just call her elf so he called her she-elf not knowing proper manners. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

04-10-2004, 03:13 PM	#6
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 733	On the subject of terms used by novice Fanfiction writers, where in all of Middle-earth did the term 'hobbitling' come from? I have seen it a few times in various places and it refers to young hobbits. I can see ther might be a need for a hobbit equivalent of boy or girl, but hobbitling? Sounds like piglet or gosling. __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.