Return of the King Oscar Predictions (and post-Oscar Comments)

[Essex]

I don't know, I think it might have been quite cool (although strange) if PJ had accepted the award in his ordinary shorts and bare feet Oh well, I suppose it would have been unacceptable to show up for the Oscars like that.

Did you see what Ben 'Starsky' Stiller was wearing? I think Peter could have got away with a pair of shorts and no shoes.............

But then we wouldn't have had the HILARIOUS 'joke' Billy Crystal said re Mr Jackson "At least he's wearing some shoes"

I would have laughed, but my head would have fallen off.

[The Only Real Estel]

I don't know, I think it might have been quite cool (although strange) if PJ had accepted the award in his ordinary shorts and bare feet Oh well, I suppose it would have been unacceptable to show up for the Oscars like that.

Hey, from all the abuse I hear the cast & crew got at the O-Show PJ should've shown up as he normally does .

p.s. Does anyone have any links they can post to pics of the lotr group at the awards?

[Bekah]

He turned up in a tux and shoes. But the dressing people kept asking PJ to do up the top button of his shirt, and he kept going : "No. I don't want to." In the end he cut the top button off in front of them...

Btw, I've met Peter Jackson. In NZ. It just wasn't the right Peter Jackson...it was another one....

[Bekah]

Can anyone remember what Billy Crystal sang at the beginning of the show? The thing about TRotK which he sang to the tune of that song from Sounds of Music?

I'm just going to watch it now; I'll see if I can get the words. The tune is 'Favourite Things', btw.

Hobbits with feet big and hairy and smelly.
More epic battles than Gest and Minelli
Ian and Viggo are queen and a king
This is the gang in the Lord of the Rings.

Frodo and Sam on a mystical planet,
Then Smeagol pops out the right boob of Janet,
Britney and J-Lo were both of their flings*
They thought it was called the Return of the Rings!

[Various drugs, I can't get their names and I don't care]
Moonshine [etc.]
J.R.R. Tolkien was taking these things
When he conceived of the Lord of the Rings!

Peter Jackson!
Made this trio!
He sure got it right.
I loved every frame of the Lord of the Rings
So I downloaded it...last niiiiight
All night, it took all night, it's so damn long!

*Really no idea. This is my attempt at deciphering the song. If anyone knows better please say so.

And there you have it.

Cheers,

~ Elentari II

[Lalaith]

Fantastic, Bekah...did you catch all of that by watching it just the one time?

Looking at the lyrics, I think I can fill in some gaps: "Gest and Minelli" - reference to messy divorce of Liza M and David G...
"a queen and a king"...a reference to Sir Ian's homosexuality.
"like the right boob"

The Britney thing, no idea, but judging by the look on Billy's face it was something a bit saucy.

[Bekah]

Parts of it, yes. Enough to write it down here, no. I recorded the Awards, see, so I listened to Billy's LOTR song this morning, kept pausing and writing, then rewinding slightly and playing to get the next part of the song....

I'll edit my song post then...thanks.

Cheers,

~ Elentari II

[Imladris]

Oh, I'm sincerely disappointed with Billy Crystal. He's making fun of LotR!!!!

It seems as if a lot of people don't get LotR and that is so sad...

[Mister Underhill]

You guys need to chill out. The whole point of having Billy Crystal as a host is to poke fun, in a good-natured kind of way, at the whole event, LotR included. He's making jokes. I watched the show and I didn't see any general resentment or sullenness. There was no "bad treatment" of LotR or its cast and crew -- they were laughing at the jabs along with everyone else. A few nominees might have been disappointed that they lost, but as someone pointed out, most of the audience are the very Academy members who heaped all the laurels on LotR. Why would they be resentful?

Crystal's "Britney and J-Lo" reference was a poke at the recently aborted nuptials of the two divas. "Return of the Rings" -- get it?

This is turning into a chatty exchange. Let's try to keep that in hand.

[Lush]

Underhill has got a point; The whole point of having someone like Billy Crystal up there during the show is to keep the celebrity guests from falling asleep and drooling all over their couture, as well as to keep us mere mortals from switching the channel.

"The Return of the King" was slated to be this year's big winner, and poking fun at it was not only justified, it was necessary. I couldn't stand three hours of repeated adulation and bum-kissing, and I doubt Peter Jackson could've either.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

I didn't watch it. My dad recorded it, but I haven't got round to seeing it yet...

Don't know why Viggo wasn't there, but Orlando is filming in Spain...

Congrats to ROTK! Shame there seems to be so many people against it though...

[TheBladeThatWasBroken]

[Various drugs, I can't get their names and I don't care]
Moonshine [etc.]
J.R.R. Tolkien was taking these things
When he conceived of the Lord of the Rings!

Yeah... I got really angry and felt insulted when he sang that part..., but I guess he still did a good job... *shrugs*

[Essex]

Mister Underhill,

Yes, Billy Crystal was there to have a laugh and take the mick, but someone needs to explain to him that repeating the same joke over and over again gets very tiring.

Great start by Mr Crystal but he descended into total sarcasm at the end when he made a point of going over to Barry Osbourne to ask whether they were related so he could make a derisory comment to win a laugh.

Again, I'm lucky I didn't laugh at this as my head would have fallen off.

[Evisse the Blue]

Hey - I don't mind a good parody, when it's done right! I don't mind randomness, absurdity, gay jokes, etc when they are funny. But Billy's songs and jokes were really not funny. It's not that I can't stand my fave movie being mocked - some parodies, captions, filks, poking fun at ROTK are downright hilarious! Oscar jokes are as a rule dumb however. the only really funny part was Jack Black and ... Ben Stiller (?) I forget who the other one was singing that "You're booring' song. lol.

And Essex - I agree about your rant. But like Finwe said, we shouldn't let such a minor thing rain on our parade.

[Mister Underhill]

Whether you think he's funny or not is another matter. I don't reckon it's easy to try to take an essentially boring show -- hours of mostly random people getting awards and then reading off lists of names that most people don't care about -- and make it entertaining.

But let's be fair -- it's silly to make out like LotR and/or New Zealand were somehow getting attacked or unfairly snubbed.

And c'mon -- Barry Osborne is the one who started that whole bit!

Goodness! No need to be so sensitive.

[Meneltarmacil]

The only thing I didn't really approve of was Liv Tyler's hairstyle. I mean, that and the weird glasses were just...

[Bekah]

the only really funny part was Jack Black and ... Ben Stiller (?) I forget who the other one was singing that "You're booring' song. lol.

I believe it was Will Farrell. "You could have rushed up to the stage but you were lolly-gagging..."

I enjoyed it, and though Billy's jokes did get a bit stale he made a tremendous effort to keep it entertaining.

And Liv's hairstyle was kind of weird. She looks much better with long hair when she wears it all to one side (i.e. the ROTK NZ premiere). I don't think she actually needed to wear those glasses....

Cheers,

~ Elentari II

[Finwe]

Yeah... I didn't get that whole glasses thing either... Why'd she keep putting them on?

[Mister Underhill]

Presumably so that she could read her lines off the teleprompter.

[Gorwingel]

Oh, yes... The glasses... They were most definitely not a fashion statement; it was most likely just a simple case of nearsightedness.

Did you see what Ben 'Starsky' Stiller was wearing? I think Peter could have got away with a pair of shorts and no shoes.............

Well Ben Stiller was wearing a suit the rest of the academy awards. The whole 70's clothing thing was just a shameless publicity stunt, that didn't really come off as being funny at all (well in my opinion).

But I do agree... I have to give credit to Jack Black and Will Ferrell for rasing the class of their comedy for the Academy Awards; the "You're Boring" song was brilliant.

Oh, and Billy Crystal meant no harm at all. He is a comedian, and we all expect him to lampoon the movies every year he hosts. He is my absolute favorite all time Oscar host so I was so glad that he hosted the year that LOTR swept the awards. I think that may have been one reason that he did host was because LOTR provides so much comic material (admit it guys... It is very easy to lampoon this series). The whole Legolas thing, and Michael Moore being stepped on by the Oliphant while talking about how it was a "fictional war" was brilliant. And then how they brought in Jack Nickelson to be the White Wizard, and how they placed the Kodak theater on top of Minas Tirith, and then how they rode into the courtyard that was decorated with Oscars. Heck it even got kind of sentimental at the end with Billy asking for advice (which with him being the White Wizard you would of course ask him for advice). I thought it was one of the best intros ever.

But I am a die hard Oscar lover, so oh well...
Any year where you have Billy Crystal, Julia Roberts, Jack, and Robin Williams is a good year.

[Evisse the Blue]

Whatever. Maybe my sense of humour is a bit warped, but it sure as hell isn't non existent. Again - whatever.
But far from being too sensitive I got some weird vibes from the audience, like the New Zealenders were the outsiders there and everyone were being generously but slightly contemptuously kind to them. In that case, the idea of 'pity Oscars' does seem to apply. It was like ROTK wasn't awarded for the great movie that it was, (even as a standalone it still would have deserved an oscar) but to provide a 'happy ending' to these LOTR years. Do you get my point?

[Imladris]

Billy Crystal was hilarious -- his jokes about LotR were excellent (except for the part in the song about the drugs and stuff -- that was the only part I did not like).

But far from being too sensitive I got some weird vibes from the audience, like the New Zealenders were the outsiders there and everyone were being generously but slightly contemptuously kind to them. In that case, the idea of 'pity Oscars' does seem to apply. It was like ROTK wasn't awarded for the great movie that it was, (even as a standalone it still would have deserved an oscar) but to provide a 'happy ending' to these LOTR years. Do you get my point?

I didn't get that feeling at all. They didn't deserve "pity" Oscars anyway. The technology was cutting edge, everything was brilliant in the film -- and the thing is, everybody knew that. In fact, the only major thing that I heard critics say they didn't like was the length of the film and I don't think that has any bearing whatsoever on the Oscars.

Hollywood may be screwy, but LotR deserved the Best Picture and they knew that. Anyone who would devote seven years of his life to make one movie, anyone who would spend time to hand craft every glass, barrel, etc, anyone who take the time to make each race unique, deserves the Best Picture Award. They may not have liked the film in and of itself, but I doubt it was a pity Oscar.

[Essex]

In that case, the idea of 'pity Oscars' does seem to apply. It was like ROTK wasn't awarded for the great movie that it was, (even as a standalone it still would have deserved an oscar) but to provide a 'happy ending' to these LOTR years. Do you get my point?

Good point Evisse. But I'm not sure it is exactly this. People voted for their 'best' in each section. For most of them, why shouldn't it win? What else was there on offer that could compare, especially when you see probably 99% of all reviews were good that ROTK got?

It all boils down to the fact that ROTK was not a Hollywood made movie. It was made in New Zealand. But another fact was that it was American MONEY that made it possible, and therefore made a lot of Americans Profit.

Did Titanic get this amount of derision we're seing (also in some of the English press as well I've noted) when it won 11 Oscars? The only thinig I remember from that year was Cameron's "I'm King of the World" quote that got some negative feedback, but other than that, as it was an American movie, wasn't it well received?

And c'mon -- Barry Osborne is the one who started that whole bit!

Yes I know. NEVER try to upstage a comedian. But Barry's parting shot was meant in good faith, whereas Billly Crystal's retort was unpleasent.

Look, I'm not having a go at the oscar show itslef. I thought it was pretty good. the introduction was well done (but then it should have been for $250k!) and the jokes, especially the Bush ones, were funny, but (and I'm repeating myself I know), my feelings are that Mr Crystal went over the top the amount of times he took the mick (the same way again and again).

You should have seen the baftas. even with Steven Fry, they were SOOOOOOO boring compared to the Oscars.

Rant over (for now!)

[Lush]

Did Titanic get this amount of derision we're seing (also in some of the English press as well I've noted) when it won 11 Oscars?

Yes.

[Essex]

Lush re

yes.

Can you elucidate?

[Lalaith]

Essex, there was a real Titanic backlash, certainly in the UK, and in general the film had quite sneery reviews, much more so than RotK. Even the clever newspapers here, who tend to be a bit snooty about fantasy, agree that RotK's clean sweep was deserved, as the trilogy was such an incredible undertaking.

I agree with Mister Underhill and Lush, some of us need to chill out about this. I personally thought Billy Crystal was very funny. The bit about drugs was a JOKE. He was not implying that the professor was actually a junkie.
And when one film just keeps winning EVERYTHING, you need to crack some jokes, if just to keep smiles on the faces of those who aren't winning anything at all as a result...

[Essex]

OK, last post as I'm repeating myself all the time.

I was not talking about REVIEWS, I was talking about the actual Oscar night. I neither care this way or that for Titanic, I've seen it (like most movie goers on the planet) and it was OK.

What it boils down to is that if rotk was an American movie it would have been better recevied on the night (and the cast and crew would have been seated in the middle!)

But hey, the oscars are in America, the academy is mostly american, so there you go.

[Mister Underhill]

I don't know what show you were watching -- what derision are you talking about?

I don't know where you get this stuff about American vs. New Zealand and so on. First of all, RotK is an American movie -- made with American money, marketed and released by American studios. Second of all, producers are like pirates. They'll go anywhere they think they can save a buck, hence the large amount of "runaway" production that has moved to places like Canada, Prague, Italy, and Mexico in recent years. They don't care if a movie was shot in New Zealand or Timbuktu. The same American Academy that nominated RotK and then voted it a sweep in the Oscars is then going to deride it on awards night... why?

Barry Osborne made some confusing joke about having dated Billy Crystal's cousin (I think). Crystal may have heard it as maybe Osborne was his cousin -- hence his question, "Are we related?" How are you reading this as some kind of sarcastic attack?

[Essex]

Mr Underhill,

I've already stated above my confusion towards rotk not being seen as an American film, as it was American money and profits. I've also stated my confusion about the people in the auditorium being members of the academy. I would be interested the find out now how many of them actually are members.

To conlude and really, my final post so don't bother to answer, I am confused as to why

1/ ROTK crew stuck on the side of the auditorium even though they had the most nominations as an american supported film?
2/ Why a lukewarm reception for best picture as an american supported film?
3/ Why constant (funny to start off with) mocking of another country for an american supported film?

when we had

4/ a standing ovation for Sean Penn for an american supported film?
5/ massive cheering for Miss Coppola for an american supported film?

Spot the difference?

Having looked again at the tape of the bit with Barry Osbourne at the end, I now concede I was over the top regarding Billy Crystal at this juncture. It probably boiled down to me getting more annoyed as the ceremony went on.

But what makes me even more angry now looking at this bit is when the guys go up on stage to get the best picture, you can see the audience from a camera shot from the stage. You can see a lot of the right (rotk) side of the auditorium standing, and a smattering of people throught the auditorium standing up, but the vast majority IGNORING THIS. They stood up for Sean Penn, why not for the best movie they will ever see?

I say it again, that's it for me. It boils down to me being annoyed at the audience's attitude towards Jackson and Co, and also at the derision (yes, derision) it has received in some articles in the (British) press over the last couple of days, even though these same journalists along with the 99% of the press already gave gushing reviews and know what a great film it is. It could be something to do with English mentality of knocking something down when it has reached the pinnacle. We seem to like losers in England and knock winners. ROTK is without doubt a Winner.

Farewell and thanks for the discussion.

[*Varda*]

I have to say, I didn't really notice any derision. True, Billy Crystal's jokes got old really fast, but I don't think that was necessarily RotK related. And yes, the LotR lot, in my personal opinion, should have been seated more in the middle, but there could be any number of reasons why this isn't the case. And derision in the press afterwards? None that I've noticed. Or maybe Scotland just loves LotR.

I feel the need to use a Squatter smiley, just once.

[Imladris]

I can hardly say that it was bad that the cast of LotR wasn't seated in the middle. That doesn't mean they're good, bad, or a nice shade of grey. Can you imagine the fights and quarrels that would happen if every cast in every movie that was nominated for Best Picture wanted to be seated in the aisle? It just doesn't really matter.

As for Billy Crystal's jokes getting old I have no idea why people say that. He said everybody in New Zealand has been thanked like what, three times? Let's face it: it's boring to hear people and more people getting thanked all the time. That was all he was referring to, more than likely. I think that as LotR continued to win, it became more apparent that each time they won, the audience would have to hear another long list of thank yous.

Not everybody likes LotR. Alot of people don't get they hype, whatever. LotR wasn't the only good movie I'm sure (I've never seen the others that were nominated), and I'm sure that there were people in the audience who thought other things deserved to win. And politics is very heavy in the Awards and I'm sure that LotR is not PC in some way or another...

Cheers!
Imladris

[Gorwingel]

Well they got the Oscars, and they can't be taken away. And additionally most of the people in the audience were academy members. The majority must have voted for ROTK, so the majority must have liked the result.

I remember last year though that the Best Picture did not get a standing ovation but Adrien Brody and Roman Polanski did.

I don't really remember any time where the Best Picture received a standing ovation.

And another reason why they were on the side could be that they were there before. That is where they sat when they were nominated for FOTR, and TTT.

I don't think the Academy had anything against LOTR. But it did have some vocal supporters who were against it, and of course it did have some vocal supporters who were for it.

But it did win the big award for some reason

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I only saw the highlights, but I saw nothing to make me think that the LotR films were any less regarded at the Oscar ceremony than any of the other films nominated in the various categories.

The ceremony undoubtedly had its fair share of cheese, as is to be expected. And Billy Crystal is no Stephen Fry, although I suspect that he is the best that one can expect on Oscar night. I found much of his opening sequence rather amusing myself (the Michael Moore episode in particular, even though I have a lot of sympathy for Moore's position).

I think that we Tolkien afficionados can be a bit overly-paranoid sometimes. But there is no smoke without fire. And it is certainly the case that there is a vocal section of the media and journalistic (and indeed academic) community that "looks down" on Tolkien's works (and the films derived from them) and is not backward in making its position quite clear. Witness the derision with which LotR's success in the BBC's "Big Read" was greeted. At least the films did not meet with such an unfriendly reaction on Oscar night as the book met with on that occasion.

And I think that it is fair to say that the Oscar win has prompted a fair amount of adverse reaction in the press, certainly the UK press, over the last week. But, as I have said elsewhere, I put that down to people who dislike the films and/or the book seeking to counteract the overwhelming acclaim that both are currently receiving. For these people, the Oscar win is, I think, the "straw that broke the camel's back".

But really, so what? As I have also said elsewhere, the popularity of the book must surely be at an all-time high, it has been voted the most popular book in the UK, and the films have proved to be amongst the most successful (both critically and financially) of all time. So, let's be content with that, eh?

[Evisse the Blue]

but I won't say anything more on the subject, either. Time to move on...

I think that we Tolkien afficionados can be a bit overly-paranoid sometimes.

yes, that's me all over. maybe you do have a point.

EDIT: Ahem, post 1013 (ten thirteen anyone? as in 1013 Productions, I made this )

[Everdawn]

And Liv's hairstyle was kind of weird.... I don't think she actually needed to wear those glasses....

I totally disagree with that, and i have been at war with my tasteless friends about this all week. (Pelennor the biggest battle? No way! NOt during post-oscar week at my school). I loved her 30's inspired Givenchy gown, I loved it to death! And th glases are her normal pair guys! But I htink they gave the whole look the right smount of flair. And my fave thing was the hair, it was a individual twist on the 30's, it's very Carole Lombard.

She did a wonderful job of presenting!

Oh! seeing Angelina Jolie at the Osacars made me tink that if Gilraen would have been anywhere in teh movies, she would be ideal to play her.

[Finwe]

I think Angelina Jolie is too sensuous-looking to play Gilraen. She's a beautiful person and a beautiful actress, but I think someone like Isabella Rossellini or a younger Anjelica Huston would be better for Gilraen.

[Lalaith]

Michelle Pfeiffer.

[mollecon]

Everdawn, I actually liked Liv Tyler in that outfit & with glasses! And though she's undoubtedly a beauty, she never struck be as that sexy, but she did seem very sexy like that!

PS.: I'm a guy!

[Essex]

mollecon,

Liv Tyler not sexy? Take a look at her dad's videos that she and Alicia Silverstone were in.. (and the film Empire Records)

I think these will help you change your mind......

[Aredhel Ar-Feiniel]

I actually liked Liv Tyler in that outfit & with glasses! And though she's undoubtedly a beauty, she never struck be as that sexy, but she did seem very sexy like that!

Id say more Galm, but yeah she did look hot, and my boyfriend took all the pictures i cut out of my magazines of her and stuck them on his walls. NOT HAPPY!

Michelle Pfieffer as Gilraen that would be cool!

[Gorwingel]

Well on the topic of Liv Tyler's outfit...
I thought that it was okay, but not the best. The dress personally for me was not the most flattering thing that she has ever worn. It seemed a little too boxy, but I didn't mind the hair. And even though the glasses were only there for utilitarian purposes... they added a nice touch to the outfit and made her look different.

I thought all the LOTR people looked very good. I personally don't like all the complaints about how Peter Jackson looked, because Peter Jackson is Peter Jackson. He is who he is, and it's not like he is an actor... he is the filmmaker, it is all about the art for him.