Amandil? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the witch king · 02-06-2003, 10:05 AM

What do you think happend to Amandil and his 3 servants? He was a 'good guy' i dont like to think he died at sea and never reached the undieing lands, he was after all trying to gain help from the Valar befor Ar-Pharazon's fleet headed in to the wast.

Legolas · 02-06-2003, 11:30 AM

Too bad there was never a 'White Book of Aman' for a Maia to keep the happenings of Aman on record.

Jurion · 02-06-2003, 12:11 PM

in the Akallabeth it is written:

Quote:

It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastwards, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate. Men could not a second time be saved by such an embassy, and for the treason of Numenor there was no easy absolving.

So no, I don't think that Amandil accomplished what he set out to do, nor do I think he ever reached Aman.

Naldoriathil · 02-06-2003, 12:11 PM

I have checked this with The Silmarillion, and i have found that it doesn't say anything about what happened but that he set out for Valinor and never returned.
Sorry if thats no use-i am just referring to the book!

Legolas · 02-06-2003, 02:31 PM

Jurion: he didn't do what he set out to in that he didn't reach Aman in time for the ships to be stopped, but the question was, did he reach Aman? If not, what became of him? If so, how did the people there receive him?

We're aware that the book says what happened ot him is not known.

What is your opinion on what happened, though?

[ February 06, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

Ultimatejoe · 02-06-2003, 11:29 PM

The only mortals to ever reach Valinor in Tolkien's legendarium were Tuor, Turambar (through Mandos), the fleet of Al-Pharazon, and the ship of Earendil. (Although Tol-Eressea wasn't as exclusive as it later became.) Considering that by the time that the history of Numenor came to be complete all but the latter two were dropped I think it is highly unlikely that Amandil could have made it.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-07-2003, 08:32 AM

I doubt it very much whether Amandil reached M-E. I excpect Elendil's rescuing was an act of Eru himself. Another example of 'good coming out of evil'.

the witch king · 02-07-2003, 09:16 AM

I it just seems slightly 'unfaire', i think he did make it to Aman but just not in time i would gess he got there befor Ar-Pharazon (if he did get there) as he would have been court in the destruction. I always thort that he may have got the Valar to spair the faithful i mean they did get to m/e 'riding' on top of the waves that wrecked Numenor!

Jurion · 02-07-2003, 09:23 AM

Well Legolas, I think that Amandil indeed did reach Aman, and there he pleaded with Manwe to save the men of Numenor. Manwe ignored his pleas but did agree to at least save the Faithfull.

But still Amandil had ignored the Ban of the Valar and thus was not allowed to remain in Aman.

PS. This post is somewhat contradictory to my earlier post but after thinking it over I reached this conclusion.

Ultimatejoe · 02-07-2003, 10:51 AM

The first rule (as far as I am concerned) in analyzing and interpretting literature is this; if it isn't anywhere in the text, it didn't happen. Amandil's sucess isn't hinted at or stated ANYWHERE in Tolkien's writing, while strong indicators to the contrary are present.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-07-2003, 01:15 PM

I really doubt that Amandil would've lasted long in Aman anyway, as he was pretty old when he left. (About 200+, since Ar-Prazon and him were around about the same age and Ar-Pharazon, was, I think 210 when he left to take over Aman.)

the witch king · 02-07-2003, 02:24 PM

It might just be me but i like to think about what could have happend but we werent told about it. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

02-06-2003, 10:05 AM	#1
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	Amandil? What do you think happend to Amandil and his 3 servants? He was a 'good guy' i dont like to think he died at sea and never reached the undieing lands, he was after all trying to gain help from the Valar befor Ar-Pharazon's fleet headed in to the wast. __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.

02-06-2003, 11:30 AM	#2
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Too bad there was never a 'White Book of Aman' for a Maia to keep the happenings of Aman on record. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-06-2003, 12:11 PM	#4
Naldoriathil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London Posts: 71	I have checked this with The Silmarillion, and i have found that it doesn't say anything about what happened but that he set out for Valinor and never returned. Sorry if thats no use-i am just referring to the book! __________________ "He is Aragorn, Son of Arathorn, Heir to the Throne of Gondor!"

02-06-2003, 02:31 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Jurion: he didn't do what he set out to in that he didn't reach Aman in time for the ships to be stopped, but the question was, did he reach Aman? If not, what became of him? If so, how did the people there receive him? We're aware that the book says what happened ot him is not known. What is your opinion on what happened, though? [ February 06, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-06-2003, 11:29 PM	#6
Ultimatejoe Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Trent University, Peterborough, Ontario Posts: 125	The only mortals to ever reach Valinor in Tolkien's legendarium were Tuor, Turambar (through Mandos), the fleet of Al-Pharazon, and the ship of Earendil. (Although Tol-Eressea wasn't as exclusive as it later became.) Considering that by the time that the history of Numenor came to be complete all but the latter two were dropped I think it is highly unlikely that Amandil could have made it. __________________ Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. -Leonardo Da Vinci

02-07-2003, 08:32 AM	#7
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	I doubt it very much whether Amandil reached M-E. I excpect Elendil's rescuing was an act of Eru himself. Another example of 'good coming out of evil'. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-07-2003, 09:16 AM	#8
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	I it just seems slightly 'unfaire', i think he did make it to Aman but just not in time i would gess he got there befor Ar-Pharazon (if he did get there) as he would have been court in the destruction. I always thort that he may have got the Valar to spair the faithful i mean they did get to m/e 'riding' on top of the waves that wrecked Numenor! __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.

02-07-2003, 09:23 AM	#9
Jurion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 85	Well Legolas, I think that Amandil indeed did reach Aman, and there he pleaded with Manwe to save the men of Numenor. Manwe ignored his pleas but did agree to at least save the Faithfull. But still Amandil had ignored the Ban of the Valar and thus was not allowed to remain in Aman. PS. This post is somewhat contradictory to my earlier post but after thinking it over I reached this conclusion.

02-07-2003, 10:51 AM	#10
Ultimatejoe Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Trent University, Peterborough, Ontario Posts: 125	The first rule (as far as I am concerned) in analyzing and interpretting literature is this; if it isn't anywhere in the text, it didn't happen. Amandil's sucess isn't hinted at or stated ANYWHERE in Tolkien's writing, while strong indicators to the contrary are present. __________________ Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. -Leonardo Da Vinci

02-07-2003, 01:15 PM	#11
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	I really doubt that Amandil would've lasted long in Aman anyway, as he was pretty old when he left. (About 200+, since Ar-Prazon and him were around about the same age and Ar-Pharazon, was, I think 210 when he left to take over Aman.) __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-07-2003, 02:24 PM	#12
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	It might just be me but i like to think about what could have happend but we werent told about it. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.