Of Hobbits and Dwarves

[Frodo Baggins]

I just started reading The Silmarillion. I have read the Valaquenta and the first chapter of Quenta Silmarillion. I have a question. Elves and Men are the Children of Iluvatar, Where does that leave Hobbits and Dwarves? Are they Iluvatar's children as well? Or just a mistake by the Valar.
For example:

One of the Valar was creating through thought one day when poof! There stands a rather short, curly-haired, furry footd manlike creture.
"Oh my what is this?" the Valar pokes at the creature, amd ruffles it's hair. The Valar is gazing at it's feet when another walks by.
"What is that? It looks like half a Man.

YOu get the picure...
But are they Childrean of Iluvatar or aren't they. It says that Olorin loved all the children of Iluvatar.

[burrahobbit]

Hobbits are Men. Dwarves are the same sort of creature as Ents (made by a Vala instead of Eru, but eventually with Eru's blessing).

[Lomelinde]

Frodo Baggins- Read on. You should soon be coming to the chapter entitled "Of Aule and Yavanna" or something like that. That will tell you all you wish to know about the origins of dwarves. As for Hobbits, Tolkien never really made that one clear, as he probably wanted to surround that issue with a little mystery. Just keep reading... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[TarElendil]

aule created the dwarves because he didnt want to wait any longer for the coming of the Firstborn. Eru let him keep the dwarves yet he would not allow them to come before the elves so they were laid to sleep until after the firstborn arose.
the anicent history of the halflings is uncertain.

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: TarElendil ]

[Veritas]

Chapter 2 of the Silmarilion:
It is told that in their beginning the Dwarves were made by Aulë in the Darkness of Middle-Earth; for so greatly did Aulë desire the coming of the Children, to have learners to whom he could teach his lore and his crafts, that he was unwilling to await the fulfilment of the desingns of Iluvatar.

Aulë didn't want to wait, so he created his own creatures, the Dwarves. Iluvatar was angry and said that they had to sleep until the Elves and the Human were on Earth.

I don't know about the Hobbits.

[Child of the 7th Age]

What is so interesting to me is that the origin of hobbits is so secret and mysterious. They held little interest to the other races, certainly not to the Elves who wrote the ancient tales.

We know they are Men but nothing else as to how they evolved. Added to this is the strange fact that, even though Bree is situated near a major crossroads, many people had never heard of hobbits or thought they were only legend. This would include the Ents, the peoples of Rohan and Gondor, and even some of the Elves. You would think, after the battle of the Five Armies, and Bilbo's role in that, more people would be aware of hobbits!

Frodo and Sam's task in the Third Age would have been more difficult if Sauron and others had initially known about hobbits and their potential. Of course, Saruman had heard of hobbits because of Gandalf, but he thought they were worthless, small people--that is, until he learned who had found the Ring, and he then became interested.

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[MallornLeaf]

Aule did not want to wait for the coming of the firstborn (elves) so he created in secret the dwarves. When Eru found out, at first he was angry, but eventually Aule persuaded him to let the dwarves live. There were two things to note about this, though, one-- the dwarves were to "sleep" until after the firstborn arrived so that it couldn't be said that they were there before the elves; and, two--there would always be strife between the children of Eru and Aule. (this explains why dwarves and elves never really got along [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] )--all this info is in the Sil.

As far as hobbits go--I'm not sure this is in every copy, but in my copy of the FOTR, at the very beginning before the story starts, there is some explanation about the hobbits. I never finished reading it, b/c I was too anxious to start the actual story, but if you read that it gives a vague explanation of hobbits. I will read it and come back to post about it!

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

Didn't hobbits originally come from the Anduin?

[burrahobbit]

Only in as much as Hawaiians come from Hawaii.

[Birdland]

The Halflings - A Creation Myth

(Note: This is not Canon)

Eru sat down at his workbench, for He had decided to create Life. Grasping a handful of All That Was Around Him, he set to work. He knew exactly what he wanted, so he worked quickly, and wasted very little material.

And when he had finished, he set what he had created on Arda, and watched as his First Creation awoke, looked around in wonder, and walked off into the World. Eru admired his handiwork, for it was perfect. And the only thing that remained on his workbench was a tiny scrap of All That Was Around Him, from which he had created the ears.

Eru knew what he wanted to create next, but he had not quite worked it all out in his head. So he took a small pinch of All That Was Around Him, and idly created a small brown forest creature, while he thought through the details.

And when he had finished, he set what he had created on Arda, and watched as his Second Creation awoke, looked around in wonder, and hopped off into the World. Eru admired his handiwork, for it was perfect, too, even though he had thought it up on the spur of the moment. And the only thing that remained on his workbench was a tiny scrap of All That Was Around Him, from which he had created the long feet.

At last, Eru grasped a handful of All That Was Around Him, and set to work on his Third Creation. But this time he worked much slower. He added, and took away, and stepped back and studied, then broke it all down and started all over again.

But at last He had finished. He set what he had created on Arda, and watched as his Third Creation awoke, looked around in wonder, and walked off into the World. Eru admired his handiwork, even though it was far from perfect. And there remained on his workbench many small pieces and scraps of All That Was Around Him.

Then Eru arose from his workbench, stretched his mighty arms, and walked off to listen to the Singing.

A little while later, Frëda, the Cleaning Lady of the Valar, walked in and looked at the Workbench of Eru. “My, my”, thought Frëda, “He must have created some wonderful things today, but look at the mess he has made!” And with that, Frëda took her whisk-broom and swept the workbench clean. Then she too left to listen to the Singing.

And the scraps and pieces fell in a small heap on Arda, and there a Fourth Creation awoke, looked around in wonder, and walked off into the World. And no one was there to watch, or admire the handiwork, or exclaim on its perfection…until much, much later.

The End

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

[Frodo Baggins]

All right I read Of Aule and Yavanna. It makes sense now. I finally know what it meant when they say Durin awoke from sleep.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Birdland -- I like your myth very much. It makes about as much sense as anything I've ever read about the creation of hobbits.

To someone else who asked, there are portions of the prologue which state what little we know of hobbit origins. It's very strange that each of the three branches of the hobbit people resemble another race either in some physical or cultural detail --the Fallohides as Elves, the Stoors as Man, and the Harfoot as Dwarves. I don't know of any other people of whom this is said. That is except modern man himself, whom Tolkien say as an amalgam of man and elf and hobbit and perhaps dwarf(?), not in a genetic sense but in terms of our characteristics and abilities.

And of course there's that humorous but cryptic comment in the Hobbit itself which says that there must have been a fairy (i.e. Elven) ancestor in the Took family!

And somewhere it also states hobbits were originally quite "primitive", a bit like the early history of the aborigines.

Who's to say?

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[mark12_30]

SHaron,

I've often puzzled about that line. As I remember it off the top of my head:

"...one of the Took anscestors must have taken a fairy wife. That was, of course, absurd, but still, there was something..."

...but still. Elves don't get away with marrying mortals without lots of (I guess you'd call it) scandal, fanfare, and songs written about it. So we'd know through the elvish lore. Wouldn't we? Unless there were Extenuating Circumstances. Hmmmm.

Fallohidish ancestry....

Hmmm, hmmm, Hoom Hom. Hmmmmmmmm.

Thanks, Sharon... I owe you. --Helen

[Bêthberry]

*stops in for a chat, having been busy gathering flowers, now laden to overflowing in her willow trug*

One point which I find fascinating about the Hobbits is the trait which differentiates them the most from the elves. Hobbits, as endearing, generous and noble as they are, tend to lack imagination. I wonder if this derives from the fact that they have been sheltered for the most part from the evils elsewhere in Middle Earth or if it represents something important in terms of Tolkien's mythology.

Bethberry