What disappointed you about The Two Towers? - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

05-01-2003, 10:28 AM

To me that got me was that Hildar died he was not even really supposed to be there thats what i did not really like it was all ok besides that since i mean u know. I was about to go offi n elvish when they killed him. i speak some elvish. but everyone should know this part though Elen sila lumenn omentilmo mellon en amin.Lle naa belegohtar. Quel Fara. Aa' lasser en lle coia orn n' omenta gurtha. Aa'menle nauve calen ar' ta hwestae' alequenle.Vanya sulie.well u guys are cool on this forum got to go talk to u guys later.

The Only Real Estel · 05-01-2003, 12:26 PM

I didn't mind to badly that Haldir died. He never really came into the books in a large part after Lothlorien, and it's a good idea to have at least 1 main or semi-main character die in each movie (in any movie really); or else it seems like the director is protecting his characters to much. It'll also gives the audience the idea that if your a main or semi-main character, your pretty much invinsible (not good to portray). Plus, like I said, since Haldir doesn't play any more main parts after Lothlorien, he's a 'expendable character', if he has to be. [ May 01, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

Estella Brandybuck · 05-01-2003, 06:30 PM

I'll be honest and say that Faramir's characterization broke my heart. . . I understand why the changes were made, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. But I think David Wenham will do a great job with him in RotK, so I'm not terribly depressed about it. And Arwen. . . *sigh* Yes, we understand. She loves Aragorn, Aragorn loves her, and she'd give up her mortality for him. We've covered this already. Y'know, if they'd just left out Fun Time with the Evenstar, there would have been more time for the Ents, or maybe enough time to put in Shelob.Now don't get me wrong, I loved the action sequences, but was the scene with Aragorn falling off a cliff really necessary? I don't mind deviations from the books as long as they serve some purpose. The changing of Faramir's character served a purpose (one I wasn't fond of, but that's beside the point ). Aragorn's "death" did not.And a lot of people I've talked to absolutely hated the Elves arriving at Helm's Deep. I'm a bit torn on that; someone I know said that one of the things she loved about Helm's Deep was that it showed Men fighting on their own without the aid of the Elves, and I understand where she's coming from. But I also know that it could have turned out a lot worse, and I'm just thankful that the Elves didn't end up saving the day or something.The Ents sort of disappointed me as well, but this was also because there was so little of them (and again, if Arwen had just left us alone, this wouldn't have been a problem). However, I really loved seeing them finally march to Isengard. Would've been nice to hear their "war song" from the book, but alas. . . Despite all of these issues, I found TTT to be a very enjoyable movie. Keep in mind - it could have been much worse.

The Only Real Estel · 05-01-2003, 08:22 PM

It's not just you...Aragorn's cliff falling scene wasn't needed in the least. I still think you can leave out Farimir taking the hobbits to Osgiliath, and have enough time for Frodo & Sam's incounter with Shelob. taht way you just substitute action for action ( and Frodo & Sam are still on the recieving end of it, so it wouldn't make them more 'boring'.). But, as you said, it could've been worse.

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-01-2003, 09:28 PM

"Does that mean that I remain the sole being on this planet who loves movie Faramir and his character." No Meela you are not alone. Where this 'evil Faramir' notion comes from I just don't know. Movie Faramir is distrustful of the Hobbits, (with good reason) and determined to find out what they are up to. Not only is Movie Frodo far less forthcoming than his Book alter-ego, he makes the serious mistake of telling Faramir an out and out lie. I can't think of anything more likely to prejudice any honorable Dunedain against the Hobbits. Movie Faramir is *CLEARLY* no more tempted by the Ring than his Book alter-ego. Note that he doesn't take it from Frodo and is quite ready to send it and the Hobbits to his father. Faramir is sending the Ring to Minas Tirith because he thinks it's the right thing to do. He thinks the Ring - and the Hobbits - will be safe in the White City and possession of the Ring will save Gondor, (Book Denethor says something like this to Gandalf). Yet in his heart Faramir knows all along he's making a mistake. It just takes him a while to accept that so counter-intuitive a course of action could be the right one. Not to mention the fact he's going to **** off his father and commit a capital crime by letting them go! As for the Arwen issue, are those protesting her prominence in the movie seriously suggesting she just appear out of nowhere in ROTK and marry Aragorn with nary a word of explanation like she does in the book? I don't think so! In fact Arwen's invisibility is one of the flaws of the book. I mean *one* glimpse of her at Rivendell and nary a hint she and Aragorn are anything but good friends until all of a sudden she rides in to become queen?? I don't know about anybody else but personally I despised Arwen for *years* because she 'stole' Aragorn from Eowyn. Tucking 'The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen' into the appendices does *nothing* to repair the original dramatic error. Or for that matter to explain Aragorn's passion for a woman who seems to be nothing but a pretty face. I mean talk about *passive*! Her looks are apparently *all* Arwen has in common with the brave and spirited Luthien, at least if Barahir can be believed.[ May 01, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

Lhunardawen · 05-02-2003, 02:21 AM

i really hate what they did to faramir. he was supposed to be one of my fave characters of the book. he said that he would not take the ring though it lay by the highway. they just did the exact opposite in the movie.

Lhunardawen · 05-02-2003, 02:24 AM

i thought the last alliance of elves and men took place near the end of the second age. that was the LAST. how come there was another "last alliance" in the battle of helm's deep? and who is haldir to command all those elven-lords (assuming) in the movie? he is just a mere elf from lorien, though he be cute.

The Only Real Estel · 05-02-2003, 11:20 AM

He was one of the more important elves, I'd guess Elrond appointed him to Captain or something. But why do you think PJ made it look like Arwen is goind over seas (Valinor)?Please tell me he won't send her over & back!

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-02-2003, 11:22 AM

Haldir tells Aragorn and Theoden he and his men are there *because* of the alliance concluded with Elendil back at the end of the Second Age. In other words this is not a 'new' alliance but an honoring of the old. As for who Haldir is - I gather in the movie he is the Captain of the March Wardens of Lorien and so an appropriate person to entrust with the expeditionary force.[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

Estella Brandybuck · 05-02-2003, 03:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As for the Arwen issue, are those protesting her prominence in the movie seriously suggesting she just appear out of nowhere in ROTK and marry Aragorn with nary a word of explanation like she does in the book? I don't think so!In fact Arwen's invisibility is one of the flaws of the book. I mean *one* glimpse of her at Rivendell and nary a hint she and Aragorn are anything but good friends until all of a sudden she rides in to become queen?? I don't know about anybody else but personally I despised Arwen for *years* because she 'stole' Aragorn from Eowyn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad idea to give Arwen a more prominent role in the movies, I just don't like how they've put so much of her in. I enjoyed her in FotR, but then again, I hadn't read the books when I first saw it, so I didn't know hardly anything about what I was seeing. And I understand why they put her in TTT even though she wasn't mentioned in the book at all - the regular movie-goers would have probably been very confused with the disappearance of all these characters. But I felt that it took up too much space when the film could have shown more of what actually happened. It was just something that I personally wasn't fond of. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Movie Faramir is distrustful of the Hobbits, (with good reason) and determined to find out what they are up to. Not only is Movie Frodo far less forthcoming than his Book alter-ego, he makes the serious mistake of telling Faramir an out and out lie. I can't think of anything more likely to prejudice any honorable Dunedain against the Hobbits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's a good point, I never thought about it that way. So when you think about it. . . it wasn't just Faramir's characterization that messed things up in the whole Ithilien/Osgiliath plot, it was also Frodo's (or something like that. . . ). But there was one thing in particular about movie Faramir that really irked me for some reason. . . okay, in the books, we hear Faramir's men talking about how he tells them not to harm living things (can't remember the exact words). But in the movie, he lets his men drag Gollum all the way to Osgiliath on a leash? It was just things like that that got to me. . . probably just me, though. But like I said, I've gotten to where I can tolerate the changes. David Wenham's performance made it all worthwhile, in my opinion.

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-02-2003, 06:40 PM

How else were they going to get him there? The Hobbits had the good sense to cooperate and limit their resistance to argument - Gollum clearly did not. Oh, and Real Estel, I wouldn't lay any bets on Arwen ending up at the Havens. IMO her father has finally pushed her into running away to join Aragorn, with Narsil.[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

The Only Real Estel · 05-02-2003, 06:46 PM

Yeah, I doubt she'll be at the havens, but it looked like Elrond sent her with the ships...I wondered why the did that (besides to get the viewers on the wrong track). [ May 06, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-02-2003, 07:24 PM

I think that was the only reason. As far as I can see all PJ's changes have been intended to increase suspense - not easy to do when you're dealing with a work that everybody already knows the end of!

Nyneve · 05-02-2003, 08:06 PM

I did dislike the whole Faramir thing. They made him almost more corrupt than Boromir and not at all like Aragorn, who he is more like in my oppinion. The Eowyn thing wasn't too bad. Merry and Pippin Didn't have as much to do in the movie as they did in the book and they probably won't get the chance to be great Heroes like in the book. Also, I think that the Helm's deep scene was waaay too long. I did like everything else. Legolas didn't just stand around and look pretty, he had LINES!!!!!!

Laiquendi · 05-03-2003, 07:35 AM

these are what dissapointed me: 1. Faramir was too evil, he was too much like his brother. 2. They killed off Haldir!!!!!!!!!!! how dare they!!!! 3. Treebeared was too small

babsies · 05-07-2003, 05:45 PM

what bugged me was that they left out shelob (sorry if anyone else mentioned that, i didnt read all the posts). she was my favorite part in the TTT. and as my friend pointed out, the story thing that sam was talking about came in rotk. also the part were aragorn falls off the cliff irked me. maybe my copy was wrong but i dont recall him falling off a cliff.

GaladrieloftheOlden · 05-07-2003, 05:48 PM

No, your copy isn't wrong, PJ changed that. Probably Shelob was left out mostly because that would make it even more of a cliffhanger than it already is... though that might have been good for RotK's start-off at the box office... *runs away to think it over*~Menelien

Maeglin · 05-08-2003, 02:27 PM

Seems like a lot of people disslike either something about the romance between arwen-aragorn or eowyn-aragorn. They where both fine to me but they werent givven any space, that's the sad thing. The movie spends to much time swaping around between action-scenes and totally leaves out the parts that made the books so great. The only thing that makes me dissapointed is the way the storyline is so much adjusted to all those ingorant watchers that just want to see people killing eachother and explode.The only "detail" that makes me upset is how totally silly Treebeards descision to attack Isengard was. Like the oldest and most "mystic" beeing in the world wouldn't know about his friends beeing cut down. :P

Lalaith · 05-08-2003, 03:42 PM

One thing that no-one has mentioned is Theoden. A "kindly old man" in Tolkien, turned by PJ into a bitter, twisted loner. In the same way that PJ turned Faramir into Boromir-lite, Theoden, rather than providing a kindly, gentle contrast to the bitter Denethor, just becomes a rather less extreme version of him. Pah! (and that ridiculous exorcism scene) I also disliked the Merry/Pippin/Treebeard to-ing and fro-ing and Osgiliath, both of which slowed down the stream of narrative. Oh, and for what it's worth, I think PJ's beefed up Arwen by making her more like Luthien. And as the book says she is Luthien reborn, then that isn't so bad. But this 'Elrond's sent her to the havens' stuff was daft. And I so WISH they'd left Eowyn, and her relations with Aragorn, as Tolkien conceived them. But I did love surfing Legolas.

GaladrieloftheOlden · 05-08-2003, 05:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 'Elrond sent her to the Havens' stuff was daft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, maybe PJ meant for something dramatic to happen after that... maybe a reliving of the story of Celebrian? *shudders violently* <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> but they werent givven any space, that's the sad thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I personally think the opposite. Way too much space. They were given like 15 minutes of the movie! I'd say 5 would be fine ~MenelienEdit: I missed my eleventy-first post when I had it, but hooray! This is my (thousand and) eleventy-first! [ May 08, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

Maeglin · 05-09-2003, 03:54 PM

Waaaao. That's so superficial. Ok I guess there wasn't need for so much more space but it definently wasn't too much. And I have to agree with that the "excorsism"-scene was plainly terrible. I'm just glad Gandalf didn't start shooting fireballs at Helms Deep untill his mana was wasted. :P

GaladrieloftheOlden · 05-09-2003, 06:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> To me that got me was that Hildar died he was not even really supposed to be there <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I liked that Haldir died, and I thought that the movie needed one death scene. I personally thought it was great. But hey, we all have out own opinions. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> That's so superficial. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, once again, we all have our opinions, and you can't really just say that one is moore superficial than the other ~Menelien

The Only Real Estel · 05-12-2003, 08:38 PM

Theoden was bad, and the demon thing was worse! I talked to my brother ( 20 and extremely knoweldgeable about LOTR ) about the scene were Arwen appears to be sent away to the havens by Elrond. He suggested that the earlier scene with Elrond being mad at Aragorn, and saying he wished she'd go, was just to throw you off the track. It's entirely possible that Elrond convinced her to go to the battle fields with Aragorn's standard ( lets hope and pray that she doesn't fight there! ), & not to the havens at all!. It's a very real possibility, & I doubt if PJ would have a second thought about messing her up more!

05-01-2003, 10:28 AM	#41
BlackKnight12 Guest Posts: n/a	To me that got me was that Hildar died he was not even really supposed to be there thats what i did not really like it was all ok besides that since i mean u know. I was about to go offi n elvish when they killed him. i speak some elvish. but everyone should know this part though <P>Elen sila lumenn omentilmo mellon en amin.Lle naa belegohtar. Quel Fara. Aa' lasser en lle coia orn n' omenta gurtha. Aa'menle nauve calen ar' ta hwestae' alequenle.Vanya sulie.<P>well u guys are cool on this forum got to go talk to u guys later.

05-01-2003, 12:26 PM	#42
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	I didn't mind to badly that Haldir died. He never really came into the books in a large part after Lothlorien, and it's a good idea to have at least 1 main or semi-main character die in each movie (in any movie really); or else it seems like the director is protecting his characters to much. It'll also gives the audience the idea that if your a main or semi-main character, your pretty much invinsible (not good to portray). Plus, like I said, since Haldir doesn't play any more main parts after Lothlorien, he's a 'expendable character', if he has to be. <p>[ May 01, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

05-01-2003, 06:30 PM	#43
Estella Brandybuck Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Satellite of Love Posts: 73	I'll be honest and say that Faramir's characterization broke my heart. . . I understand why the changes were made, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. But I think David Wenham will do a great job with him in RotK, so I'm not terribly depressed about it. <P>And Arwen. . . sigh Yes, we understand. She loves Aragorn, Aragorn loves her, and she'd give up her mortality for him. We've covered this already. Y'know, if they'd just left out Fun Time with the Evenstar, there would have been more time for the Ents, or maybe enough time to put in Shelob.<P>Now don't get me wrong, I loved the action sequences, but was the scene with Aragorn falling off a cliff <I>really</I> necessary? I don't mind deviations from the books as long as they serve some purpose. The changing of Faramir's character served a purpose (one I wasn't fond of, but that's beside the point ). Aragorn's "death" did not.<P>And a lot of people I've talked to absolutely hated the Elves arriving at Helm's Deep. I'm a bit torn on that; someone I know said that one of the things she loved about Helm's Deep was that it showed Men fighting on their own without the aid of the Elves, and I understand where she's coming from. But I also know that it could have turned out a lot worse, and I'm just thankful that the Elves didn't end up saving the day or something.<P>The Ents sort of disappointed me as well, but this was also because there was so little of them (and again, if Arwen had just <I>left us alone</I>, this wouldn't have been a problem). However, I really loved seeing them finally march to Isengard. Would've been nice to hear their "war song" from the book, but alas. . . <P>Despite all of these issues, I found TTT to be a very enjoyable movie. Keep in mind - it could have been <I>much</I> worse. __________________ "But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards." - RotK Do you enjoy reading and writing LotR fanfiction?

05-01-2003, 09:28 PM	#45
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	"Does that mean that I remain the sole being on this planet who loves movie Faramir and his character."<P> No Meela you are not alone. Where this 'evil Faramir' notion comes from I just don't know. Movie Faramir is distrustful of the Hobbits, (with good reason) and determined to find out what they are up to. Not only is Movie Frodo far less forthcoming than his Book alter-ego, he makes the serious mistake of telling Faramir an out and out lie. I can't think of anything more likely to prejudice any honorable Dunedain against the Hobbits.<P> Movie Faramir is CLEARLY no more tempted by the Ring than his Book alter-ego. Note that he doesn't take it from Frodo and is quite ready to send it and the Hobbits to his father.<P> Faramir is sending the Ring to Minas Tirith because he thinks it's the right thing to do. He thinks the Ring - and the Hobbits - will be safe in the White City and possession of the Ring will save Gondor, (Book Denethor says something like this to Gandalf). <P> Yet in his heart Faramir knows all along he's making a mistake. It just takes him a while to accept that so counter-intuitive a course of action could be the right one. Not to mention the fact he's going to **** off his father and commit a capital crime by letting them go!<P> As for the Arwen issue, are those protesting her prominence in the movie seriously suggesting she just appear out of nowhere in ROTK and marry Aragorn with nary a word of explanation like she does in the book? I don't think so!<P> In fact Arwen's invisibility is one of the flaws of the book. I mean one glimpse of her at Rivendell and nary a hint she and Aragorn are anything but good friends until all of a sudden she rides in to become queen?? I don't know about anybody else but personally I despised Arwen for years because she 'stole' Aragorn from Eowyn. <P> Tucking 'The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen' into the appendices does nothing to repair the original dramatic error. Or for that matter to explain Aragorn's passion for a woman who seems to be nothing but a pretty face. I mean talk about passive! Her looks are apparently all Arwen has in common with the brave and spirited Luthien, at least if Barahir can be believed.<p>[ May 01, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

05-02-2003, 11:22 AM	#49
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	Haldir tells Aragorn and Theoden he and his men are there because of the alliance concluded with Elendil back at the end of the Second Age. In other words this is not a 'new' alliance but an honoring of the old.<P> As for who Haldir is - I gather in the movie he is the Captain of the March Wardens of Lorien and so an appropriate person to entrust with the expeditionary force.<p>[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

05-01-2003, 08:22 PM	#44
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	It's not just you...Aragorn's cliff falling scene wasn't needed in the least. I still think you can leave out Farimir taking the hobbits to Osgiliath, and have enough time for Frodo & Sam's incounter with Shelob. taht way you just substitute action for action ( and Frodo & Sam are still on the recieving end of it, so it wouldn't make them more 'boring'.). But, as you said, it could've been worse.

05-02-2003, 02:21 AM	#46
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	i really hate what they did to faramir. he was supposed to be one of my fave characters of the book. he said that he would not take the ring though it lay by the highway. they just did the exact opposite in the movie.

05-02-2003, 02:24 AM	#47
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	i thought the last alliance of elves and men took place near the end of the second age. that was the LAST. how come there was another "last alliance" in the battle of helm's deep? and who is haldir to command all those elven-lords (assuming) in the movie? he is just a mere elf from lorien, though he be cute.

05-02-2003, 11:20 AM	#48
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	He was one of the more important elves, I'd guess Elrond appointed him to Captain or something. But why do you think PJ made it look like Arwen is goind over seas (Valinor)?Please tell me he won't send her over & back!

05-02-2003, 03:20 PM	#50
Estella Brandybuck Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Satellite of Love Posts: 73	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As for the Arwen issue, are those protesting her prominence in the movie seriously suggesting she just appear out of nowhere in ROTK and marry Aragorn with nary a word of explanation like she does in the book? I don't think so!<P>In fact Arwen's invisibility is one of the flaws of the book. I mean one glimpse of her at Rivendell and nary a hint she and Aragorn are anything but good friends until all of a sudden she rides in to become queen?? I don't know about anybody else but personally I despised Arwen for years because she 'stole' Aragorn from Eowyn. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad idea to give Arwen a more prominent role in the movies, I just don't like how they've put so much of her in. I enjoyed her in FotR, but then again, I hadn't read the books when I first saw it, so I didn't know hardly anything about what I was seeing. And I understand why they put her in TTT even though she wasn't mentioned in the book at all - the regular movie-goers would have probably been very confused with the disappearance of all these characters. But I felt that it took up too much space when the film could have shown more of what actually happened. It was just something that I personally wasn't fond of. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Movie Faramir is distrustful of the Hobbits, (with good reason) and determined to find out what they are up to. Not only is Movie Frodo far less forthcoming than his Book alter-ego, he makes the serious mistake of telling Faramir an out and out lie. I can't think of anything more likely to prejudice any honorable Dunedain against the Hobbits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's a good point, I never thought about it that way. So when you think about it. . . it wasn't just Faramir's characterization that messed things up in the whole Ithilien/Osgiliath plot, it was also Frodo's (or something like that. . . ). But there was one thing in particular about movie Faramir that really irked me for some reason. . . okay, in the books, we hear Faramir's men talking about how he tells them not to harm living things (can't remember the exact words). But in the movie, he lets his men drag Gollum all the way to Osgiliath on a leash? It was just things like that that got to me. . . probably just me, though. But like I said, I've gotten to where I can tolerate the changes. David Wenham's performance made it all worthwhile, in my opinion. __________________ "But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards." - RotK Do you enjoy reading and writing LotR fanfiction?

05-02-2003, 06:40 PM	#51
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	How else were they going to get him there? The Hobbits had the good sense to cooperate and limit their resistance to argument - Gollum clearly did not.<P> Oh, and Real Estel, I wouldn't lay any bets on Arwen ending up at the Havens. IMO her father has finally pushed her into running away to join Aragorn, with Narsil.<p>[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: Morwen Tindomerel ]

05-02-2003, 06:46 PM	#52
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Yeah, I doubt she'll be at the havens, but it looked like Elrond sent her with the ships...I wondered why the did that (besides to get the viewers on the wrong track). <BR> <p>[ May 06, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

05-02-2003, 07:24 PM	#53
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	I think that was the only reason. As far as I can see all PJ's changes have been intended to increase suspense - not easy to do when you're dealing with a work that everybody already knows the end of!

05-02-2003, 08:06 PM	#54
Nyneve Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Place Between the Twighlight and the Dawn Posts: 29	I did dislike the whole Faramir thing. They made him almost more corrupt than Boromir and not at all like Aragorn, who he is more like in my oppinion. The Eowyn thing wasn't too bad. Merry and Pippin Didn't have as much to do in the movie as they did in the book and they probably won't get the chance to be great Heroes like in the book. Also, I think that the Helm's deep scene was waaay too long. I did like everything else. Legolas didn't just stand around and look pretty, he had LINES!!!!!! __________________ Yet do thy worst, old Time: despite thy wrong, My love shall in my verse ever live young.--W.S.

05-03-2003, 07:35 AM	#55
Laiquendi Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 46	these are what dissapointed me:<BR>1. Faramir was too evil, he was too much like his brother.<BR>2. They killed off Haldir!!!!!!!!!!! how dare they!!!! <BR>3. Treebeared was too small __________________ My name is Lalaith, i am an Elven exile, living with the Dunedain of the North. I can disapeare for days at a time so be warned. I appeare when and if i chose. I amar prestar aen, Han mathon ne nen, Han mathon ne chae, A han noston ned wilith.

05-07-2003, 05:45 PM	#56
babsies Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2003 Location: the land of oz Posts: 12	what bugged me was that they left out shelob (sorry if anyone else mentioned that, i didnt read all the posts). she was my favorite part in the TTT. and as my friend pointed out, the story thing that sam was talking about came in rotk. also the part were aragorn falls off the cliff irked me. maybe my copy was wrong but i dont recall him falling off a cliff. __________________ hey! I'm depraved on acount I'm deprived!- Action from West Side Story

05-07-2003, 05:48 PM	#57
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	No, your copy isn't wrong, PJ changed that. Probably Shelob was left out mostly because that would make it even more of a cliffhanger than it already is... though that might have been good for RotK's start-off at the box office... runs away to think it over<P>~Menelien __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."

05-08-2003, 02:27 PM	#58
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Seems like a lot of people disslike either something about the romance between arwen-aragorn or eowyn-aragorn. They where both fine to me but they werent givven any space, that's the sad thing. The movie spends to much time swaping around between action-scenes and totally leaves out the parts that made the books so great. The only thing that makes me dissapointed is the way the storyline is so much adjusted to all those ingorant watchers that just want to see people killing eachother and explode.<P>The only "detail" that makes me upset is how totally silly Treebeards descision to attack Isengard was. Like the oldest and most "mystic" beeing in the world wouldn't know about his friends beeing cut down. :P __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

05-08-2003, 03:42 PM	#59
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	One thing that no-one has mentioned is Theoden. A "kindly old man" in Tolkien, turned by PJ into a bitter, twisted loner. In the same way that PJ turned Faramir into Boromir-lite, Theoden, rather than providing a kindly, gentle contrast to the bitter Denethor, just becomes a rather less extreme version of him. Pah! (and that ridiculous exorcism scene)<BR>I also disliked the Merry/Pippin/Treebeard to-ing and fro-ing and Osgiliath, both of which slowed down the stream of narrative.<BR> <BR>Oh, and for what it's worth, I think PJ's beefed up Arwen by making her more like Luthien. And as the book says she is Luthien reborn, then that isn't so bad. <BR>But this 'Elrond's sent her to the havens' stuff was daft. And I so WISH they'd left Eowyn, and her relations with Aragorn, as Tolkien conceived them. <BR>But I did love surfing Legolas. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

05-08-2003, 05:22 PM	#60
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 'Elrond sent her to the Havens' stuff was daft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, maybe PJ meant for something dramatic to happen after that... maybe a reliving of the story of Celebrian? shudders violently <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> but they werent givven any space, that's the sad thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I personally think the opposite. Way too much space. They were given like 15 minutes of the movie! I'd say 5 would be fine <P>~Menelien<P>Edit: I missed my eleventy-first post when I had it, but hooray! This is my (thousand and) eleventy-first! <p>[ May 08, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ] __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."

05-09-2003, 03:54 PM	#61
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Waaaao. That's so superficial. Ok I guess there wasn't need for so much more space but it definently wasn't too much. And I have to agree with that the "excorsism"-scene was plainly terrible. I'm just glad Gandalf didn't start shooting fireballs at Helms Deep untill his mana was wasted. :P __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

05-09-2003, 06:21 PM	#62
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> To me that got me was that Hildar died he was not even really supposed to be there <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I liked that Haldir died, and I thought that the movie needed <I>one</I> death scene. I personally thought it was great. But hey, we all have out own opinions. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> That's so superficial. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, once again, we all have our opinions, and you can't really just say that one is moore superficial than the other <P>~Menelien __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."

05-12-2003, 08:38 PM	#63
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Theoden was bad, and the demon thing was worse! I talked to my brother ( 20 and extremely knoweldgeable about LOTR ) about the scene were Arwen appears to be sent away to the havens by Elrond. He suggested that the earlier scene with Elrond being mad at Aragorn, and saying he wished she'd go, was just to throw you off the track. It's entirely possible that Elrond convinced her to go to the battle fields with Aragorn's standard ( lets hope and pray that she doesn't fight there! ), & not to the havens at all!. It's a very real possibility, & I doubt if PJ would have a second thought about messing her up more!