Did Tolkien find the idea of war honourable? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 02-02-2004, 03:39 PM

I think, Squatter, you have put your finger on the point where Tolkien's world view can be examined for its culpability (I'm not sure that is the right word, but it is the one available to me now, in a hurry): the portrayal of evil as something incarnate and external to the natures of the 'good guys.'

The argument being that, when evil is viewed as the effect of someone or something 'other' or out there, it becomes more difficult to recognize the possibility of error or evil in ourselves. It becomes easier to justify aggression, hostility, war because the assumption is always that the fault lies with this external perpetrator rather than in how the good guys have themselves behaved or understood the situation. Squatter's terms 'duped' and 'coerced' are very significant here because these words imply that the ultimate responsibility lies more with this form of evil incarnate rather than with those who have 'fallen'. That attitude takes away their agency and lessens their responsibility. It is always easier to say, "He made me do it" than to acknowledge personal responsibility. (This, to me, is part of the elves' error.)

It lends itself almost inevitably to the philosophical position of dualism, or Manicheanism (in one of its forms), which I believe is a heresy in terms of Catholic doctrine.

Tolkien himself pointed out this error, if I am remembering correctly, in one of his letters where he regretted using evil as incarnate in a specific being. Darned if I can remember which letter now and I (obviously quite conveniently [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) have no time to suss it out now.

This, of course, leads to a larger philosophical discussion which perhaps takes us away from Middle-earth.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:57 PM February 02, 2004: Message edited by: Bêthberry ]

02-02-2004, 03:39 PM	#24
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,005	I think, Squatter, you have put your finger on the point where Tolkien's world view can be examined for its culpability (I'm not sure that is the right word, but it is the one available to me now, in a hurry): the portrayal of evil as something incarnate and external to the natures of the 'good guys.' The argument being that, when evil is viewed as the effect of someone or something 'other' or out there, it becomes more difficult to recognize the possibility of error or evil in ourselves. It becomes easier to justify aggression, hostility, war because the assumption is always that the fault lies with this external perpetrator rather than in how the good guys have themselves behaved or understood the situation. Squatter's terms 'duped' and 'coerced' are very significant here because these words imply that the ultimate responsibility lies more with this form of evil incarnate rather than with those who have 'fallen'. That attitude takes away their agency and lessens their responsibility. It is always easier to say, "He made me do it" than to acknowledge personal responsibility. (This, to me, is part of the elves' error.) It lends itself almost inevitably to the philosophical position of dualism, or Manicheanism (in one of its forms), which I believe is a heresy in terms of Catholic doctrine. Tolkien himself pointed out this error, if I am remembering correctly, in one of his letters where he regretted using evil as incarnate in a specific being. Darned if I can remember which letter now and I (obviously quite conveniently [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) have no time to suss it out now. This, of course, leads to a larger philosophical discussion which perhaps takes us away from Middle-earth. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:57 PM February 02, 2004: Message edited by: Bêthberry ] __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.