Saruman appearing to the Three Walkers - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kalessin · 03-04-2002, 10:57 PM

er ... thanks, Maril.

When the three travellers discuss who it was, Aragorn observes that, whilst there are stories of Saruman appearing as a hooded figure, the strange apparation they saw was NOT hooded, but wearing a hat. The fact this text is there appears seems to imply it wasn't Saruman. When Gandalf appears, it initially seemed obvious (to me) that the previous night's apparition was him, but he says not.

Perhaps this was deliberate obfuscation by Tolkien ... I suggest there are three main possibilities : -

1. It was Saruman. NO, Aragorn's observation counters that, and the subsequent text does not indicate that Saruman had any awareness of the travellers prior to their meeting 'in the flesh'.

2. It was Gandalf. This could be posited as one of those moments of Biblical allegory - a pre-resurrection signal. But NO, Gandalf's assertion that it wasn't him seems to take it away from being such a meaningful moment. And no-one else discusses it further following that. Alternatively, it was a premonition of Gandalf. YES, This fits, in that Gandalf would not necessarily know that the travellers had experienced a premonition. But it seems strangely insignificant a vision, and equally, the three don't have any other premonitions. The only other example of 'foresight' I can see is via the mirror of Galadriel.

3. It was just a moment of mystery from Tolkien, A little episode to illustrate the eerie and magical nature of Fangorn (and of Middle Earth as a whole). It's purpose, to bring a sense of magicality back, after the prosaic and sweaty chase of the Orcs. To signal a shift or broadening of the narrative atmosphere.

4. It was me, crossing the divide between fact and fiction through a wormhole of messianic self-importance (please note I said THREE possibilities).

... strange one. Ah well.

Peace

[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]

03-04-2002, 10:57 PM	#11
Kalessin Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Earthsea, or London Posts: 175	er ... thanks, Maril. When the three travellers discuss who it was, Aragorn observes that, whilst there are stories of Saruman appearing as a hooded figure, the strange apparation they saw was NOT hooded, but wearing a hat. The fact this text is there appears seems to imply it wasn't Saruman. When Gandalf appears, it initially seemed obvious (to me) that the previous night's apparition was him, but he says not. Perhaps this was deliberate obfuscation by Tolkien ... I suggest there are three main possibilities : - 1. It was Saruman. NO, Aragorn's observation counters that, and the subsequent text does not indicate that Saruman had any awareness of the travellers prior to their meeting 'in the flesh'. 2. It was Gandalf. This could be posited as one of those moments of Biblical allegory - a pre-resurrection signal. But NO, Gandalf's assertion that it wasn't him seems to take it away from being such a meaningful moment. And no-one else discusses it further following that. Alternatively, it was a premonition of Gandalf. YES, This fits, in that Gandalf would not necessarily know that the travellers had experienced a premonition. But it seems strangely insignificant a vision, and equally, the three don't have any other premonitions. The only other example of 'foresight' I can see is via the mirror of Galadriel. 3. It was just a moment of mystery from Tolkien, A little episode to illustrate the eerie and magical nature of Fangorn (and of Middle Earth as a whole). It's purpose, to bring a sense of magicality back, after the prosaic and sweaty chase of the Orcs. To signal a shift or broadening of the narrative atmosphere. 4. It was me, crossing the divide between fact and fiction through a wormhole of messianic self-importance (please note I said THREE possibilities). ... strange one. Ah well. Peace [ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]