Greatest Man of Middle-Earth?? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

12-08-2002, 11:24 PM

Sorry bout that, I've been on minimum sleep and all the names banded together
Now I would have to say Aragorn, he:
-Bought the "world of men" back from the
brink of destruction
-Saved the Ring- bearer many times
-Resisted taking the ring from Frodo
-Re- united men all over the world
Thats all I can say right now.

Keneldil the Polka-dot · 10-05-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

How smitten Beren was by Luthien (and no doubt he had it bad) doesn't really have anything to do with it.

No, but how smitten Luthien was by Beren has a lot to do with it.

Seems like the arguments for Hurin boil down to his stint in the chair facing Morgoth....resisting Morgoth's will. Hurin did resist for 28 years, but in the end his resistance went for naught when he gave Morgoth exactly what he wanted. Doesn't change the fact that resisting for so long is amazing, but does detract from Hurin's status re: Greatest Man of Middle Earth.

Quote:

No other human, ever, went through anything so terrible.

(Why is it I seem to have a galling inability to drive home this point?)

Your point is well made, and easily understood. I concede Hurin's 28 year defiance may very well be the bravest single mortal deed. However, don't JRRT's own words describe the retrieval of the Silmaril as the greatest deed ever? Regardless of single acts, Beren wins when looking at the whole picture.

CSteefel · 10-24-2006, 11:30 PM

Seems a bit difficult to say how one man or another would have fared under imprisonment by Morgoth--if they weren't in this situation, as Hurin was, it is speculation to say whether they would have cracked or not. All you can do is evaluate them based on what they themselves went through.

I am mystified, however, why people would suggest Turin as the greatest man. Greatest warrior, maybe, but a flawed character from the start. It wasn't just the little thing with his sister--he argued early on with Thingol and rejected his pleas to come back to Doriath. He was proud and willful, as was pointed out early on, and this led to the dark future that Thingol and Melian recognized him as having.

Hard to dispute the suggestions of Hurin and Beren, however. One has to factor in the nobility of spirit, and what they were willing to do in pursuit of their ideals or love, and in this respect I think both were bona fide great men.

I would put Elendil myself in front of Isildur, who was flawed (fatally, as it turns out) in not rejecting the Ring and destroying it. Elendil, in contrast, was the prime mover of the Faithful on Numenor, a position that put him at considerable risk. And he, with Gil-galad, was the prime mover of the Last Alliance against Sauron, and it would seem that he and Gil-Galad were primarily responsible for defeating Sauron at the cost of their own lives.

Finally Aragorn... I don't understand the belittling of him above. As Tolkien said, he was the greatest and hardiest traveller of his age, in addition to key roles in saving the day at Helm's Deep, and even more so, at the Pelennor Fields. Only a truly heroic figure could have gone through the Paths of the Dead--while it was prophesied that the rightful heir of Isildur could do it, as Tolkien said, it was only the will of Aragorn that held them to the path. And at a crucial time, he rejected the lure of the Ring (like Galadriel, and unlike Isildur).

12-08-2002, 11:24 PM	#1
mikenugent Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry bout that, I've been on minimum sleep and all the names banded together Now I would have to say Aragorn, he: -Bought the "world of men" back from the brink of destruction -Saved the Ring- bearer many times -Resisted taking the ring from Frodo -Re- united men all over the world Thats all I can say right now.

10-24-2006, 11:30 PM	#3
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	Seems a bit difficult to say how one man or another would have fared under imprisonment by Morgoth--if they weren't in this situation, as Hurin was, it is speculation to say whether they would have cracked or not. All you can do is evaluate them based on what they themselves went through. I am mystified, however, why people would suggest Turin as the greatest man. Greatest warrior, maybe, but a flawed character from the start. It wasn't just the little thing with his sister--he argued early on with Thingol and rejected his pleas to come back to Doriath. He was proud and willful, as was pointed out early on, and this led to the dark future that Thingol and Melian recognized him as having. Hard to dispute the suggestions of Hurin and Beren, however. One has to factor in the nobility of spirit, and what they were willing to do in pursuit of their ideals or love, and in this respect I think both were bona fide great men. I would put Elendil myself in front of Isildur, who was flawed (fatally, as it turns out) in not rejecting the Ring and destroying it. Elendil, in contrast, was the prime mover of the Faithful on Numenor, a position that put him at considerable risk. And he, with Gil-galad, was the prime mover of the Last Alliance against Sauron, and it would seem that he and Gil-Galad were primarily responsible for defeating Sauron at the cost of their own lives. Finally Aragorn... I don't understand the belittling of him above. As Tolkien said, he was the greatest and hardiest traveller of his age, in addition to key roles in saving the day at Helm's Deep, and even more so, at the Pelennor Fields. Only a truly heroic figure could have gone through the Paths of the Dead--while it was prophesied that the rightful heir of Isildur could do it, as Tolkien said, it was only the will of Aragorn that held them to the path. And at a crucial time, he rejected the lure of the Ring (like Galadriel, and unlike Isildur).