The Valar - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

02-16-2002, 05:23 PM

The Valar keeps popping up in some of the replies i've read and I'm just wondering what it is.

Thingol · 02-16-2002, 07:10 PM

In the beginning of time Eru who in Middle Earth is called Illuvitar (God) created the Ainur. Illuvitar gave the Ainur a theme and the Ainur made a great music before Illuvitar. From this music Illuvitar creates the world and the Ainur descend into it. The greatest of the Ainur are the Valar. There were originally 15 of them, but Melkor (Sauron's master) is no longer counted among the Valar. The rest of the Ainur are called the Maiar and they are the servants of the Valar. Sauron, Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the Balrog are Maiar. Read the Silmarillion, you will get all this info and more in it.

Legolas · 02-16-2002, 09:55 PM

The Valar are...

Lords:
Manwë Súlimo - Greatest of the Valar
Tulkas Astaldo - Strongest
Lórien/Irmo - who the garden of Lórien in Valinor is named for (and obviously, the woodland in Middle-earth)
Aulë the Smith - Maker of Middle-earth and the Dwarves
Oromë/Araw - discovered the Eldar
Ulmo - Lord of the Waters
Mandos/Námo - Doomsman of the Valar

Queens:
Varda Elentári/Elbereth - Queen of the Stars, Manwë's wife
Yavanna Kementári - Queen of the Earth, Aulë's wife
Nienna - 'Lady of Tears', taught Olórin (Gandalf)
Nessa - Tulkas' wife
Vána the Ever-young - Oromë's wife
Vairë - weaves the tales of history
Estë the Gentle - Irmo's wife

The greatest eight are known as the Aratar, said to be equal in reverence:
Manwë, Varda, Ulmo, Yavanna, Aulë, Mandos, Nienna and Oromë.

Among the Valar, there are relations...
Oromë and Nessa are brother/sister.
Mandos, Irmo, and Nienna are brother/brother/sister.
Yavanna and Vána are sisters.

There were originally 15 Valar and 9 Aratar, but Melkor, the "mightiest dweller in Arda, equal to Manwë in power," turned away from the mission of Eru to pursue his own agenda.

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-16-2002, 10:03 PM

Quote:

There were originally 15 Valar and 9 Aratar, but Melkor, the "mightiest dweller in Arda, equal to Manwë in power," turned away from the mission of Eru to pursue his own agenda.

And of Melkor and Manwë it was said

Quote:

But Manwë was the brother of Melkor in the mind of Ilúvatar ...

[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

Legolas · 02-16-2002, 10:36 PM

Yes, we (myself, BW, Sharku) covered that in the chatroom just before I made this post and I thought it best not to mention it as it was never stated as a concrete relation...it could be taken as 'peers in power' as Sharku put it. It is worth mentioning as long as it doesn't confuse the readers.

[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-16-2002, 10:42 PM

True.

Quote:

Great might was given to him by Ilúvatar, and he was coëval with Manwë.

Balefalathiel · 02-17-2002, 02:59 PM

Read Silmarillion and you find out more.... (Great book; just reading it..) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Mayla Took · 02-17-2002, 03:26 PM

To learn about the Valar, read the Silmarilion! I enjoy it very much!

Joy · 02-17-2002, 03:48 PM

I can't seem to get into the Sil. I'm trying though. It gets confusing. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] I get bogged down in it easily.

Can you reccomend a way to get through it??? I do want to read it and understand it.

Mayla Took · 02-17-2002, 03:57 PM

Hummm, well, I had a hard time getting through the first couple of chapters just because it was just introdusing everyone and everything. I would just recomend taking you time to ponder it. Trust me! It gets better! Just hang through the borring parts!

Elendur · 02-18-2002, 01:07 AM

After reading The Silmarillion for the first time I didn't even know how Beleriand related to Middle Earth. I barely remembered the difference between Tuor and Turin. Not to mention all the names of the elves.. I wouldn't have been able to name a son of Feanor. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

My suggestion is to read The Silmarillion. Then, if you want, read Unfinished Tales. Then go back to The Silmarillion and everything will make sense. That is what I did. Or you could always just read The Silmarillion once and then read it again. My point is you wont really understand everything unless you really really try because things are explained in the back of the book that are talked about in the front and so on. So reading it once and then once again will make everything fit like it did for me.

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Elendur ]

Carannillion · 02-18-2002, 03:16 PM

Yes, you most definetely have to read the Sil. Don't look at it as an unbearable task, look upon it as something you do out of your own interest, to better understand Tolkien. Take your time, re-read, re-read some more, and don't stress.

02-16-2002, 05:23 PM	#1
lossenovien Guest Posts: n/a	The Valar The Valar keeps popping up in some of the replies i've read and I'm just wondering what it is.

02-16-2002, 07:10 PM	#2
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	In the beginning of time Eru who in Middle Earth is called Illuvitar (God) created the Ainur. Illuvitar gave the Ainur a theme and the Ainur made a great music before Illuvitar. From this music Illuvitar creates the world and the Ainur descend into it. The greatest of the Ainur are the Valar. There were originally 15 of them, but Melkor (Sauron's master) is no longer counted among the Valar. The rest of the Ainur are called the Maiar and they are the servants of the Valar. Sauron, Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the Balrog are Maiar. Read the Silmarillion, you will get all this info and more in it. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

02-16-2002, 09:55 PM	#3
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	The Valar are... Lords: Manwë Súlimo - Greatest of the Valar Tulkas Astaldo - Strongest Lórien/Irmo - who the garden of Lórien in Valinor is named for (and obviously, the woodland in Middle-earth) Aulë the Smith - Maker of Middle-earth and the Dwarves Oromë/Araw - discovered the Eldar Ulmo - Lord of the Waters Mandos/Námo - Doomsman of the Valar Queens: Varda Elentári/Elbereth - Queen of the Stars, Manwë's wife Yavanna Kementári - Queen of the Earth, Aulë's wife Nienna - 'Lady of Tears', taught Olórin (Gandalf) Nessa - Tulkas' wife Vána the Ever-young - Oromë's wife Vairë - weaves the tales of history Estë the Gentle - Irmo's wife The greatest eight are known as the Aratar, said to be equal in reverence: Manwë, Varda, Ulmo, Yavanna, Aulë, Mandos, Nienna and Oromë. Among the Valar, there are relations... Oromë and Nessa are brother/sister. Mandos, Irmo, and Nienna are brother/brother/sister. Yavanna and Vána are sisters. There were originally 15 Valar and 9 Aratar, but Melkor, the "mightiest dweller in Arda, equal to Manwë in power," turned away from the mission of Eru to pursue his own agenda. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-16-2002, 10:36 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Yes, we (myself, BW, Sharku) covered that in the chatroom just before I made this post and I thought it best not to mention it as it was never stated as a concrete relation...it could be taken as 'peers in power' as Sharku put it. It is worth mentioning as long as it doesn't confuse the readers. [ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-17-2002, 03:26 PM	#8
Mayla Took Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Shire Posts: 152	To learn about the Valar, read the Silmarilion! I enjoy it very much! __________________ Good Things Come in Small Packages. (And don't you forget it!) Pippin:"What is that?!?" Merry:"This, my friend, is a pint!" Pippin:"It comes in PINTS?!?....I'm getting one!" "Don't let your heads get too big for your hats! But if you don't finish growing up soon, you are going to find hats and clothes expensive." Bilbo to Merry and Pippin "Fool of a Took! This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!" Gandalf to Pippin in Moria E-mail me at mailto:ThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.comThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.com</A> Oh, and please rate me. THANKS!

02-17-2002, 02:59 PM	#7
Balefalathiel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 34	Read Silmarillion and you find out more.... (Great book; just reading it..) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

02-17-2002, 03:48 PM	#9
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	I can't seem to get into the Sil. I'm trying though. It gets confusing. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] I get bogged down in it easily. Can you reccomend a way to get through it??? I do want to read it and understand it. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

02-17-2002, 03:57 PM	#10
Mayla Took Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Shire Posts: 152	Hummm, well, I had a hard time getting through the first couple of chapters just because it was just introdusing everyone and everything. I would just recomend taking you time to ponder it. Trust me! It gets better! Just hang through the borring parts! __________________ Good Things Come in Small Packages. (And don't you forget it!) Pippin:"What is that?!?" Merry:"This, my friend, is a pint!" Pippin:"It comes in PINTS?!?....I'm getting one!" "Don't let your heads get too big for your hats! But if you don't finish growing up soon, you are going to find hats and clothes expensive." Bilbo to Merry and Pippin "Fool of a Took! This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!" Gandalf to Pippin in Moria E-mail me at mailto:ThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.comThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.com</A> Oh, and please rate me. THANKS!

02-18-2002, 01:07 AM	#11
Elendur Wight Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Arnor Posts: 200	After reading The Silmarillion for the first time I didn't even know how Beleriand related to Middle Earth. I barely remembered the difference between Tuor and Turin. Not to mention all the names of the elves.. I wouldn't have been able to name a son of Feanor. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] My suggestion is to read The Silmarillion. Then, if you want, read Unfinished Tales. Then go back to The Silmarillion and everything will make sense. That is what I did. Or you could always just read The Silmarillion once and then read it again. My point is you wont really understand everything unless you really really try because things are explained in the back of the book that are talked about in the front and so on. So reading it once and then once again will make everything fit like it did for me. [ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Elendur ] __________________ Son of Isildur.

02-18-2002, 03:16 PM	#12
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	Yes, you most definetely have to read the Sil. Don't look at it as an unbearable task, look upon it as something you do out of your own interest, to better understand Tolkien. Take your time, re-read, re-read some more, and don't stress. __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...