Silmarils - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morgoth Bauglir · 11-09-2002, 09:50 PM

Did the Silmarils have any healing capabilities? I know that they were marvellous to behold and all, but what were they good for? Could they heal things/people like the elessar or the elendilmir? The only thing that it did was open the way to the west when Earendil went there, but not much else.
Of course they were revered because they had the light of the two trees in them, but....yeah. Im kind of stumped. They caused more bad than good if you think about it.

burrahobbit · 11-09-2002, 10:05 PM

They didn't do anything aside from being pretty, as far as I know.

Kuruharan · 11-09-2002, 10:16 PM

They would apparently burn those of evil intent that handled them.
Although that may not be exactly a use.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

lathspell · 11-10-2002, 10:54 AM

The Silmarils were just vrey beautiful jewels with an extraordinary heat against evil. They reason that it was the Silmaril that opened the way to the West, was because in the Silmarils lay the beginning of it all. If the Simarils weren't made, the Elves wouldn't have gone to the West (in short)!

greetings,
lathspell

Aiwendil · 11-10-2002, 12:07 PM

Quote:

The Silmarils were just vrey beautiful jewels with an extraordinary heat against evil.

I don't think I can agree with this. First of all, as you say, a Silmaril was able to pierce the shadows and enchantments that surrounded Valinor and allow Earendil to come thither. Second, (and I'm sorry I can't provide a reference for this at the moment) it is said that the Elves at the Mouths of Sirion prospered for a time due to the Silmaril. I think they had some power aside from mere beauty.

thorondil · 11-10-2002, 12:24 PM

The Silmarils were called living things, and their crystal was "as is the body to the Children of Iluvatar."

Mandos foretold that "the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them."

burrahobbit · 11-10-2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

If the Simarils weren't made, the Elves wouldn't have gone to the West (in short)!

The Silmarils were made after the Elves had already gone into the West, by an Elf.

I would say that the reason a Silmaril helped Earendil get to Valinor was because the Valar thought that it was beautiful and wanted it near them, covetous wretches that they are.

Morgoth Bauglir · 11-10-2002, 07:30 PM

well...i guess you would only prosper if you were an elf. Otherwise, it would speed your death up. Luthien and Beren died an early death because it was too beautiful and bright for mortals.

Túroch · 11-11-2002, 01:14 PM

I myself think that the Silmarils had a power, what kind i'm not quite sure. In the Silmarillion when Carcharoth the Wolf of Angband wandered into Doriath after swallowing the Silmaril it says, "the might of Melian upon the borders of the land stayed him not; for fate drove him, and the power of the Silmaril that he bore to his torment". As for the Silmarils causing more harm then good, well it wasn't the jewels themselves that caused grief it was the envy and want of them. Hey burrahobbit where in OK are you from? I'm a Tulsan through and through.

lathspell · 11-11-2002, 01:36 PM

*feeling stupid*

Quote:

If the Simarils weren't made, the Elves wouldn't have gone to the West

That, of course, should be: 'wouldn't have gone back to M-e'

Turoch: You speak about Carcharoth breaking through the Girdle of Melian with the Silmaril burning inside him. Yet I don't think it was the Silmaril that gave him that power, for earlier in the same story Beren breaks through it as well without a Silmaril. I guess it was faith that drove them, and (though I don't have any quotes now) I think Tolkien used this power more than these two times. Maybe it was because their fates were bound together, and with a Silmaril.

greetings,
lathspell

Lindolirian · 11-11-2002, 04:29 PM

Quote:

it is said that the Elves at the Mouths of Sirion prospered for a time due to the Silmaril.

This was also said of Beren and Luthien when the lived on Tol Galen. It said that it was made like Valinor or somethin like that, but the beauty of it along with Luthien was just way too cool for them and it made them die quicker.

Orald · 11-11-2002, 05:20 PM

I see a few things have been overlooked.

First, the Silmarils are so important because they contain the last bit of light from the Two Trees. And second, they burn those who are evil because they were hallowed by Varda, it wasn't an original quality.

Saurreg · 11-17-2002, 08:38 AM

Didn't the the Chapter "Of Beren and Luthien" state that when Mablung placed the silmaril on Beren's hand, he came out of the swoon he was in after bearing the full blunt of Carcharoth's attackon Thingol? Perhaps the silmaril did have some healing properties. Otherwise Beren would have died. After all, the light of the silmarils came from Yavenna's work and the work of the Valars were good.

Lindril Arvilya · 11-17-2002, 10:33 PM

And as for the "Curse of the Silmarils" (in which they bring death , destruction, increased taxes, etc...) well, it's the same curse that surrounds all great jewels- greed and the power they symbolize. Look at the hugest diamonds or sapphires in our world- they've probably been killed for. That's cause us mortals love riches and power and what do these gems mean? Exactly. For the Elves, it was not only having their most beautiful and advanced creation wrested from them, but it was the same money/power/jewelry thing.

Túroch · 11-18-2002, 12:27 AM

Here, here Lindril Arvilya. I quite agree. The reason that the Silmarils caused so much sorrow and grief was because of the Oath that Feanor and his son's took. That oath and the curse of Mandos doomed them to throw away all in the persuit of the Silmaril.

HA. I've got a Silmarillion power! It is a bit indirect but here goes. Eärendil the mariner sails through the sky with a Silmaril upon his brow right. Wasn't the star thet the elves call Eärendil the same that gave the light which Galadriel gave to Frodo in her Phial? Well that light certinally had an effect on Shelob, i'd say that the Silmaril shows itself to have some interedting properties.

P.S. If my info on Eärendil is skewed don't harass me too much, I haven't read the Silmarillian for awhile.

doug*platypus · 02-07-2003, 06:35 AM

Since they had the power to help the elf community at the Falas thrive, I always thought they must have power similar to the three elven rings. There seem to be similarities between the refuge of the Falas and those of Rivendell and Lórien, in that they were the last great strongholds of things elfy in Middle-Earth.

After all, they were created from the Two Trees, and kept the memory of their light. They had the power of Nostalgia.

Ultimatejoe · 02-07-2003, 10:49 AM

They didn't have the power of "nostalgia" because they weren't merely preserves of light; they were sources of it. The Silmarils essentially had the same powers that the light of the trees had; to pierce shadow and cause growth, beauty, and prosperity.

***Mithadan*** · 02-07-2003, 11:34 AM

Since the subject has been raised by Doug and others (less directly), I once read an extensive article which suggested that the power of the Three Rings, air, water and fire, resulted from their ability to "link" to the Silmarils which are lost to Middle Earth in air, water and a fiery chasm. I thought this theory was off base and a bit more than speculative but I thought that I'd bring it up for the sake of discussion.

the witch king · 02-07-2003, 03:47 PM

Sounds fairly unlikely, but its a interesting comment is there anything to back it up?

11-09-2002, 09:50 PM	#1
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	Silmarils Did the Silmarils have any healing capabilities? I know that they were marvellous to behold and all, but what were they good for? Could they heal things/people like the elessar or the elendilmir? The only thing that it did was open the way to the west when Earendil went there, but not much else. Of course they were revered because they had the light of the two trees in them, but....yeah. Im kind of stumped. They caused more bad than good if you think about it.

11-09-2002, 10:05 PM	#2
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	They didn't do anything aside from being pretty, as far as I know. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

11-09-2002, 10:16 PM	#3
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	They would apparently burn those of evil intent that handled them. Although that may not be exactly a use. [ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ] __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

11-10-2002, 10:54 AM	#4
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	The Silmarils were just vrey beautiful jewels with an extraordinary heat against evil. They reason that it was the Silmaril that opened the way to the West, was because in the Silmarils lay the beginning of it all. If the Simarils weren't made, the Elves wouldn't have gone to the West (in short)! greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

11-10-2002, 12:24 PM	#6
thorondil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 53	The Silmarils were called living things, and their crystal was "as is the body to the Children of Iluvatar." Mandos foretold that "the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them." __________________ only that Part from which he came

11-10-2002, 07:30 PM	#8
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	well...i guess you would only prosper if you were an elf. Otherwise, it would speed your death up. Luthien and Beren died an early death because it was too beautiful and bright for mortals.

11-11-2002, 01:14 PM	#9
Túroch Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State University Posts: 102	I myself think that the Silmarils had a power, what kind i'm not quite sure. In the Silmarillion when Carcharoth the Wolf of Angband wandered into Doriath after swallowing the Silmaril it says, "the might of Melian upon the borders of the land stayed him not; for fate drove him, and the power of the Silmaril that he bore to his torment". As for the Silmarils causing more harm then good, well it wasn't the jewels themselves that caused grief it was the envy and want of them. Hey burrahobbit where in OK are you from? I'm a Tulsan through and through. __________________ For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which thay had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness." Ulmo - Lord of waters

11-11-2002, 05:20 PM	#12
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	I see a few things have been overlooked. First, the Silmarils are so important because they contain the last bit of light from the Two Trees. And second, they burn those who are evil because they were hallowed by Varda, it wasn't an original quality.

11-17-2002, 08:38 AM	#13
Saurreg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In self imposed exile... Posts: 465	Didn't the the Chapter "Of Beren and Luthien" state that when Mablung placed the silmaril on Beren's hand, he came out of the swoon he was in after bearing the full blunt of Carcharoth's attackon Thingol? Perhaps the silmaril did have some healing properties. Otherwise Beren would have died. After all, the light of the silmarils came from Yavenna's work and the work of the Valars were good. __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. " ~Voltaire

11-17-2002, 10:33 PM	#14
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 332	And as for the "Curse of the Silmarils" (in which they bring death , destruction, increased taxes, etc...) well, it's the same curse that surrounds all great jewels- greed and the power they symbolize. Look at the hugest diamonds or sapphires in our world- they've probably been killed for. That's cause us mortals love riches and power and what do these gems mean? Exactly. For the Elves, it was not only having their most beautiful and advanced creation wrested from them, but it was the same money/power/jewelry thing. __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

11-18-2002, 12:27 AM	#15
Túroch Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State University Posts: 102	Here, here Lindril Arvilya. I quite agree. The reason that the Silmarils caused so much sorrow and grief was because of the Oath that Feanor and his son's took. That oath and the curse of Mandos doomed them to throw away all in the persuit of the Silmaril. HA. I've got a Silmarillion power! It is a bit indirect but here goes. Eärendil the mariner sails through the sky with a Silmaril upon his brow right. Wasn't the star thet the elves call Eärendil the same that gave the light which Galadriel gave to Frodo in her Phial? Well that light certinally had an effect on Shelob, i'd say that the Silmaril shows itself to have some interedting properties. P.S. If my info on Eärendil is skewed don't harass me too much, I haven't read the Silmarillian for awhile. __________________ For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which thay had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness." Ulmo - Lord of waters

02-07-2003, 06:35 AM	#16
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Since they had the power to help the elf community at the Falas thrive, I always thought they must have power similar to the three elven rings. There seem to be similarities between the refuge of the Falas and those of Rivendell and Lórien, in that they were the last great strongholds of things elfy in Middle-Earth. After all, they were created from the Two Trees, and kept the memory of their light. They had the power of Nostalgia. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

02-07-2003, 10:49 AM	#17
Ultimatejoe Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Trent University, Peterborough, Ontario Posts: 125	They didn't have the power of "nostalgia" because they weren't merely preserves of light; they were sources of it. The Silmarils essentially had the same powers that the light of the trees had; to pierce shadow and cause growth, beauty, and prosperity. __________________ Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. -Leonardo Da Vinci

02-07-2003, 11:34 AM	#18
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,391	Since the subject has been raised by Doug and others (less directly), I once read an extensive article which suggested that the power of the Three Rings, air, water and fire, resulted from their ability to "link" to the Silmarils which are lost to Middle Earth in air, water and a fiery chasm. I thought this theory was off base and a bit more than speculative but I thought that I'd bring it up for the sake of discussion. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

02-07-2003, 03:47 PM	#19
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	Sounds fairly unlikely, but its a interesting comment is there anything to back it up? __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.