It feels different near the Shire.... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nar · 10-16-2002, 11:09 AM

I believe you're referring to my post, not Bethberry's, and I thank you kindly, Helen. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Bethberry's is the one with the excellent poetry and 'most wild washing day' and I had the 'Bag End to Barrow' sequence as a microcosm of the whole quest. (You put that much better than I did, by the way).

Ah, Davem, yes, I heartily agree that Tom's Tom. I'm not surprised if Tolkien was uncomfortable with the extreme intensity his nature themes took on --there certainly are pagan elements in Tom (which I think consistent with the 'spirit of the countryside' idea). I think that that idea of Tom and the 'countryside' was always there, though. I think Tolkien's feelings about the landscape he moved to were always a motivating force for the creation of Tom. As far as I know, these feelings date to his boyhood, so they would have been available when he created Tom. I don't suppose we can ever determine this for certain. As to the issue of whether Tom's singing does connect to the role of the creation-song in Arda -- well, we can't determine that. All I can say is that the idea doesn't disturb Tom's presence in my mind when I think of the story. I have long felt that Tom was a whole of some kind connected with Arda. I hope my arguments are not interfering with your vision of Tom. Let me re-affirm: Tom is Tom!

10-16-2002, 11:09 AM	#28
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	I believe you're referring to my post, not Bethberry's, and I thank you kindly, Helen. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Bethberry's is the one with the excellent poetry and 'most wild washing day' and I had the 'Bag End to Barrow' sequence as a microcosm of the whole quest. (You put that much better than I did, by the way). Ah, Davem, yes, I heartily agree that Tom's Tom. I'm not surprised if Tolkien was uncomfortable with the extreme intensity his nature themes took on --there certainly are pagan elements in Tom (which I think consistent with the 'spirit of the countryside' idea). I think that that idea of Tom and the 'countryside' was always there, though. I think Tolkien's feelings about the landscape he moved to were always a motivating force for the creation of Tom. As far as I know, these feelings date to his boyhood, so they would have been available when he created Tom. I don't suppose we can ever determine this for certain. As to the issue of whether Tom's singing does connect to the role of the creation-song in Arda -- well, we can't determine that. All I can say is that the idea doesn't disturb Tom's presence in my mind when I think of the story. I have long felt that Tom was a whole of some kind connected with Arda. I hope my arguments are not interfering with your vision of Tom. Let me re-affirm: Tom is Tom!