Bible and Tolkien? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kalessin · 03-31-2002, 11:34 PM

As Littleman says, check out the "Trilogy and Bible" thread, which has about 4 pages of comprehensive discussion and argument about this topic.

However, in summary - the "similarities" prove nothing. There are also many similarities between LotR and other epic myths (which Tolkien loved and studied), and equally there are similarities between various epic myths and the Bible (particularly the Old Testament). And remember too that the Biblical similarities only relate to our translation of the Bible ... and what about the controversial 'Gospel of St Thomas' which does not appear in the traditional text?

Secondly, allegory is either intentional or it is not allegory (and allegory bears no relation to similarity). So when Tolkien says LotR was NOT allegorical, why not believe him? Classifying a work as allegory tends to diminish it, as does describing Tolkien as a cunning evangelist, using literary devices to disguise and yet proselytise his faith. I don't accept this, as JRRT was very upfront about his Catholicism. And to suggest the allegory was unintentional (subconscious) implies that Tolkien was both lazy and un-observant, which seems patently untrue. He was constantly revisiting and revising all his work, and I can't believe he would have allowed 'unintentional' elements which could be taken for allegory (which he so publicly avoided) to remain.

The morality in LotR is essentially Christian; however, the story is neither an allegory or propaganda. It is, as Tolkien hmself said, a story.

The Bible is meaningful enough to stand on its own. And LotR is a work of literature that has so far stood the test of time without appropriation by any interest group. I hope it stays that way.

Check out the Trilogy and Bible thread! (I'm going to move it back up to the top ...)

Peace

03-31-2002, 11:34 PM	#7
Kalessin Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Earthsea, or London Posts: 175	As Littleman says, check out the "Trilogy and Bible" thread, which has about 4 pages of comprehensive discussion and argument about this topic. However, in summary - the "similarities" prove nothing. There are also many similarities between LotR and other epic myths (which Tolkien loved and studied), and equally there are similarities between various epic myths and the Bible (particularly the Old Testament). And remember too that the Biblical similarities only relate to our translation of the Bible ... and what about the controversial 'Gospel of St Thomas' which does not appear in the traditional text? Secondly, allegory is either intentional or it is not allegory (and allegory bears no relation to similarity). So when Tolkien says LotR was NOT allegorical, why not believe him? Classifying a work as allegory tends to diminish it, as does describing Tolkien as a cunning evangelist, using literary devices to disguise and yet proselytise his faith. I don't accept this, as JRRT was very upfront about his Catholicism. And to suggest the allegory was unintentional (subconscious) implies that Tolkien was both lazy and un-observant, which seems patently untrue. He was constantly revisiting and revising all his work, and I can't believe he would have allowed 'unintentional' elements which could be taken for allegory (which he so publicly avoided) to remain. The morality in LotR is essentially Christian; however, the story is neither an allegory or propaganda. It is, as Tolkien hmself said, a story. The Bible is meaningful enough to stand on its own. And LotR is a work of literature that has so far stood the test of time without appropriation by any interest group. I hope it stays that way. Check out the Trilogy and Bible thread! (I'm going to move it back up to the top ...) Peace