Trilogy and Bible? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Mister Underhill*** · 12-24-2000, 03:16 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 223</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Only read this if you care

tree, no apology necessary for the essay. I like a post with some meat on its bones! But on the other hand, don't take it from me – if I’m not the most long-winded poster on the board, I'm at least in the running. But I digress.

Your post is well-reasoned, but I think I could make a case for Gandalf as a quasi-messianic figure. Consider:
·He was sent to Middle-earth by heavenly powers to save its people.
·He lived a life of relative poverty, had no home, owned only the possessions that he carried on his back, and traveled constantly in pursuit of his mission.
·He was a teacher and a leader.
·He could perform miraculous feats.
·He was a friend to the friendless (his mercy for Gollum) and a champion of the weak and lowly (of all the so-called Wise, he was the only one with an interest in Hobbits).
·His message was often met with scorn and contempt.
·He died and was reborn.

I can’t remember a time when Gandalf ever really faltered or lost his self-control. Sure he was tempted by the Ring, but Jesus was tempted, too. Gandalf didn’t give in to temptation. And okay, he was apt to lose his temper from time to time, but not in any serious way and only under circumstances that were justified. Jesus rebuked his disciples harshly from time to time, and he blew his stack (albeit righteously) on occasion – remember that table-tipping incident up to the temple? And Gandalf maintained his faith in a seemingly hopeless cause right up to the end.

But I’m really just playing devil’s advocate here (there’s a pun in there somewhere which I suppose is intended). I ultimately agree that LotR isn’t a parable or an allegory. I think you’ve hit the mark – Christian stories, morals, beliefs, and motifs were a part of who JRRT was and so inevitably turned up in his writing. What writer worth his salt would want to write stories that don’t in some way reflect his own beliefs and philosophies anyway?

Durelen, I don’t think you could mark Boromir as Judas. His “betrayal” of the Fellowship wasn’t deliberate and premeditated, and he died redeeming himself. One might say that he played the role allotted to him by fate to perfection. If not for him, would Frodo have found the courage to do what needed to be done? Certainly Pippin and Merry, at the least, would have insisted on accompanying him. Would things have worked out successfully if they had gone to Mordor too? I’ve always been curious about the Ring’s power – was it able to actually control Boromir in some way, or is it like one of those pure energy Star Trek aliens that merely lowers inhibitions or amplifies already existing urges and allows the true self to be exposed? Maybe Boromir best equates to Thomas. Always doubtful, that Boromir.

Whew. See what I mean?

</p>

12-24-2000, 03:16 PM	#11
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 223</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Only read this if you care tree, no apology necessary for the essay. I like a post with some meat on its bones! But on the other hand, don't take it from me – if I’m not the most long-winded poster on the board, I'm at least in the running. But I digress. Your post is well-reasoned, but I think I could make a case for Gandalf as a quasi-messianic figure. Consider: ·He was sent to Middle-earth by heavenly powers to save its people. ·He lived a life of relative poverty, had no home, owned only the possessions that he carried on his back, and traveled constantly in pursuit of his mission. ·He was a teacher and a leader. ·He could perform miraculous feats. ·He was a friend to the friendless (his mercy for Gollum) and a champion of the weak and lowly (of all the so-called Wise, he was the only one with an interest in Hobbits). ·His message was often met with scorn and contempt. ·He died and was reborn. I can’t remember a time when Gandalf ever really faltered or lost his self-control. Sure he was tempted by the Ring, but Jesus was tempted, too. Gandalf didn’t give in to temptation. And okay, he was apt to lose his temper from time to time, but not in any serious way and only under circumstances that were justified. Jesus rebuked his disciples harshly from time to time, and he blew his stack (albeit righteously) on occasion – remember that table-tipping incident up to the temple? And Gandalf maintained his faith in a seemingly hopeless cause right up to the end. But I’m really just playing devil’s advocate here (there’s a pun in there somewhere which I suppose is intended). I ultimately agree that LotR isn’t a parable or an allegory. I think you’ve hit the mark – Christian stories, morals, beliefs, and motifs were a part of who JRRT was and so inevitably turned up in his writing. What writer worth his salt would want to write stories that don’t in some way reflect his own beliefs and philosophies anyway? Durelen, I don’t think you could mark Boromir as Judas. His “betrayal” of the Fellowship wasn’t deliberate and premeditated, and he died redeeming himself. One might say that he played the role allotted to him by fate to perfection. If not for him, would Frodo have found the courage to do what needed to be done? Certainly Pippin and Merry, at the least, would have insisted on accompanying him. Would things have worked out successfully if they had gone to Mordor too? I’ve always been curious about the Ring’s power – was it able to actually control Boromir in some way, or is it like one of those pure energy Star Trek aliens that merely lowers inhibitions or amplifies already existing urges and allows the true self to be exposed? Maybe Boromir best equates to Thomas. Always doubtful, that Boromir. Whew. See what I mean? </p>