Galadriel vs Feanor in the U.T. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iarhen · 03-07-2003, 09:21 AM

This is something that impressed me a lot. Since I have not been able to read the Unfinished Tales (I cant find the book!!!)this story is something new to me.

So, could anyone tell me more about it? Why did they fought? How did they fought (physically, mentally, magically...)? Who won? What happened to the loser?

Galadriel keeps impressing me more and more. She was able to stand in a fight against one of the greatest of the Eldar!!! WOW... no wonder why she's mighty among the High Elves...

Inderjit Sanghera · 03-07-2003, 09:23 AM

They never fought. In one version, the one in which Celeborn is a Telerin prince, named Teleporno (giggles) Galadriel fights against the Noldor on the side of the Teleri.

They just didn't get along. They never actually FOUGHT.

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

amyrlis · 03-07-2003, 11:53 AM

I don't remember any physical strife between Galadriel & Feanor in UT, but what I think you are speaking of is the "hair" incident. The experts may have to check my facts and fill in some blanks here, I've only read UT once, but I'll do my best to explain.

Based on Feanor's cold relationship with his half-brothers, Fingolfin and Finarfin (Galadriel's father), Galadriel has no love for Feanor and she does not take pains to hide this fact. Feanor is however, enamoured of her beautiful, golden hair. He eventually asks her for a strand of hair which he would like to use in the making of a jewel. She refuses him outright, and it is a cause of humiliation to Feanor. Thus perpetuating the rift between Feanor's line and that of his half-brothers.

At the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, Galadriel and her company take up arms to defend the Teleri (her mother's people) against the host of Feanor. I do not remember Galadriel and Feanor having any direct clash during this conflict. But, perhaps that happened, anyone?

Inderjit Sanghera · 03-07-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

But, perhaps that happened, anyone?

No-it didn't happen.

**The Saucepan Man** · 03-07-2003, 12:29 PM

If Galadriel sided with the Teleri at the kin-slaying of Alqualonde, how come she ended up in exile with the rest of the Noldor?

Inderjit Sanghera · 03-07-2003, 12:35 PM

There are two diffrent versions. Galadirel's escape with Celeborn was Tolkien's final one.

Legolas · 03-07-2003, 01:39 PM

Galadriel and Feanor were the greatest of the Noldor. Tolkien said so. Luthien, however, was the greatest of the Eldar.

[ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

Iarwain · 03-07-2003, 06:24 PM

In case you're wondering UT, a very good read, can be found at any large bookstore (B&N, Borders in the US). But if you want a hardcover edition its a bit tougher since it is out of print. They're very fine books if you happen upon one in a rare bookstore.

I never knew that Galadriel was considered one of the greatest of the Noldor. Very interesting

Inderjit Sanghera · 03-08-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Feanor maybe, though she was wiser then he...

---->The Shibboleth of Feanor.

The 'Greatest of the Noldor' is a tie between the two, but Luthien is described as 'Greatest of the Eldar'.

[ March 08, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

Silmarien · 03-11-2003, 10:13 PM

I always think it's interesting how Galadriel wouldn't give a strand of her hair to Feanor (So he goes off and makes the Silmarils). But she gives Gimli three strands of her hair. And I think it says the reason Galadriel didn't like Feanor had something to do with her being able to read people.

Tar-Palantir · 03-11-2003, 11:45 PM

Quote:

If Galadriel sided with the Teleri at the kin-slaying of Alqualonde, how come she ended up in exile with the rest of the Noldor?

In that final version, that was never woven in to the story, Galadriel and Celeborn left anyway in their own ship. In essence leaving 'with' Fëanor but not 'with' him, so to speak. Galadriel's desire to leave Valinor and "exercise her talents" was neither forbidden by Manwë nor was permission granted. Then:

Quote:

Galadriel, despairing now of Valinor and horrified by the violence and cruelty of Fëanor, set sail into the darkness without waiting for Manwë's leave, which would undoubtedly have been withheld in that hour, however legitimate her desire in itself. It was thus that she came under the ban set upon all departure, and Valinor was shut against her return.

I just read that last night and had to share it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Lalaith · 03-12-2003, 03:06 AM

A golden-haired woman refusing a man a strand of her hair is an ancient theme.
In Njalssaga, the greatest of the Icelandic sagas and one that Tolkien knew and admired, a warrior named Gunnar is defending himself from attackers at his homestead and one of his enemies cuts the string of his bow. He asks his wife Hallgerdr for a lock of her long, beautiful golden hair to make a new bowstring, but she refuses (as he had previously slighted her at a party!)
Gunnar is killed as a result...

Of course, Galadriel's motives were far more noble than those of Hallgerdr.

Hilde Bracegirdle · 03-12-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

In case you're wondering UT, a very good read, can be found at any large bookstore (B&N, Borders in the US). But if you want a hardcover edition its a bit tougher since it is out of print. They're very fine books if you happen upon one in a rare bookstore.

I got a hardback edition of UT from Amazon recently. So the good news is that it's back in print.

UT in hardback

Well that is certainly interesting to know, Lalaith, but what a wretched thing for a wife to do!

Lalaith · 03-12-2003, 12:12 PM

Hehe. True. I've just remembered, he did worse than slight her, he slapped her in public - I tell you, don't mess with those Viking women. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
But seriously, while Galadriel is clearly nothing like this character, I'm sure Tolkien got his idea for the refusal of hair thing from Njalssaga.

03-14-2003, 11:31 AM

I don't know if this has already been mentioned somewhere but perhaps she gave Gimli three strands of her hair because she refused to give Feanor a strand of hair three times, so this is like a last 'sucks to you" at Feanor. He asks three times she refuses, many thousands of years later Gimli asks one and she gives him three sort of as a 'rememberance' of her uncle.

Silmarien · 03-15-2003, 09:33 PM

Yeah I like that but I think it was more her saying "this Dwarf is better than you"
not that Galadriel would put it like that [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

03-07-2003, 09:21 AM	#1
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	Galadriel vs Feanor in the U.T. This is something that impressed me a lot. Since I have not been able to read the Unfinished Tales (I cant find the book!!!)this story is something new to me. So, could anyone tell me more about it? Why did they fought? How did they fought (physically, mentally, magically...)? Who won? What happened to the loser? Galadriel keeps impressing me more and more. She was able to stand in a fight against one of the greatest of the Eldar!!! WOW... no wonder why she's mighty among the High Elves... __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.

03-07-2003, 09:23 AM	#2
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	They never fought. In one version, the one in which Celeborn is a Telerin prince, named Teleporno (giggles) Galadriel fights against the Noldor on the side of the Teleri. They just didn't get along. They never actually FOUGHT. [ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ] __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

03-07-2003, 11:53 AM	#3
amyrlis Wight Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Helcaraxe Posts: 210	I don't remember any physical strife between Galadriel & Feanor in UT, but what I think you are speaking of is the "hair" incident. The experts may have to check my facts and fill in some blanks here, I've only read UT once, but I'll do my best to explain. Based on Feanor's cold relationship with his half-brothers, Fingolfin and Finarfin (Galadriel's father), Galadriel has no love for Feanor and she does not take pains to hide this fact. Feanor is however, enamoured of her beautiful, golden hair. He eventually asks her for a strand of hair which he would like to use in the making of a jewel. She refuses him outright, and it is a cause of humiliation to Feanor. Thus perpetuating the rift between Feanor's line and that of his half-brothers. At the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, Galadriel and her company take up arms to defend the Teleri (her mother's people) against the host of Feanor. I do not remember Galadriel and Feanor having any direct clash during this conflict. But, perhaps that happened, anyone? __________________ "Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."

03-07-2003, 12:29 PM	#5
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	If Galadriel sided with the Teleri at the kin-slaying of Alqualonde, how come she ended up in exile with the rest of the Noldor? __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

03-07-2003, 12:35 PM	#6
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	There are two diffrent versions. Galadirel's escape with Celeborn was Tolkien's final one. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

03-07-2003, 01:39 PM	#7
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Galadriel and Feanor were the greatest of the Noldor. Tolkien said so. Luthien, however, was the greatest of the Eldar. [ March 07, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

03-07-2003, 06:24 PM	#8
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	In case you're wondering UT, a very good read, can be found at any large bookstore (B&N, Borders in the US). But if you want a hardcover edition its a bit tougher since it is out of print. They're very fine books if you happen upon one in a rare bookstore. I never knew that Galadriel was considered one of the greatest of the Noldor. Very interesting __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

03-11-2003, 10:13 PM	#10
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	I always think it's interesting how Galadriel wouldn't give a strand of her hair to Feanor (So he goes off and makes the Silmarils). But she gives Gimli three strands of her hair. And I think it says the reason Galadriel didn't like Feanor had something to do with her being able to read people. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

03-12-2003, 03:06 AM	#12
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	A golden-haired woman refusing a man a strand of her hair is an ancient theme. In Njalssaga, the greatest of the Icelandic sagas and one that Tolkien knew and admired, a warrior named Gunnar is defending himself from attackers at his homestead and one of his enemies cuts the string of his bow. He asks his wife Hallgerdr for a lock of her long, beautiful golden hair to make a new bowstring, but she refuses (as he had previously slighted her at a party!) Gunnar is killed as a result... Of course, Galadriel's motives were far more noble than those of Hallgerdr. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

03-12-2003, 12:12 PM	#14
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Hehe. True. I've just remembered, he did worse than slight her, he slapped her in public - I tell you, don't mess with those Viking women. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] But seriously, while Galadriel is clearly nothing like this character, I'm sure Tolkien got his idea for the refusal of hair thing from Njalssaga. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

03-14-2003, 11:31 AM	#15
Feather Guest Posts: n/a	I don't know if this has already been mentioned somewhere but perhaps she gave Gimli three strands of her hair because she refused to give Feanor a strand of hair three times, so this is like a last 'sucks to you" at Feanor. He asks three times she refuses, many thousands of years later Gimli asks one and she gives him three sort of as a 'rememberance' of her uncle.

03-15-2003, 09:33 PM	#16
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	Yeah I like that but I think it was more her saying "this Dwarf is better than you" not that Galadriel would put it like that [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!