Orcs and Goblins! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Sharkû*** · 11-28-2003, 06:24 PM

I give the paragraph in question here in full. My stresses mean to indicate how I came to the interpretation that Saruman's men-orc-hybrids could also be considered a superior breed of orcs.

<font size="-2">"Finally, there is a cogent point, though horrible to relate. It became clear in time that undoubted Men could under the domination of Morgoth or his agents in a few generations be reduced almost to the Orc-level of mind and habits; and then they would or could be made to mate with Orcs, producing new breeds, often larger and more cunning. There is no doubt that long afterwards, in the Third Age, Saruman rediscovered this, or learned of it in lore, and in his lust for mastery committed this, his wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men, producing both Men-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men treacherous and vile." (HoME X,5,x)

I wholeheartedly agree that it is impossible to draw anything really definite about this question from the text, especially given its nature. Also, I have to admit I seemed to recall a statement to the effect that the southern spy in the Pony had orc blood in him, but was obviously wrong.

11-28-2003, 06:24 PM	#31
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	I give the paragraph in question here in full. My stresses mean to indicate how I came to the interpretation that Saruman's men-orc-hybrids could also be considered a superior breed of orcs. <font size="-2">"Finally, there is a cogent point, though horrible to relate. It became clear in time that undoubted Men could under the domination of Morgoth or his agents in a few generations be reduced almost to the Orc-level of mind and habits; and then they would or could be made to mate with Orcs, producing new breeds, often larger and more cunning. There is no doubt that long afterwards, in the Third Age, Saruman rediscovered this, or learned of it in lore, and in his lust for mastery committed this, his wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men, producing both Men-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men treacherous and vile." (HoME X,5,x) I wholeheartedly agree that it is impossible to draw anything really definite about this question from the text, especially given its nature. Also, I have to admit I seemed to recall a statement to the effect that the southern spy in the Pony had orc blood in him, but was obviously wrong.