eucatastrophe: piercing joy that brings tears - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gandalf_theGrey · 08-18-2002, 08:57 AM

* Steps forth, smoking a conversational bowl of Old Toby. *

Hullo, Kuruharan and mark12_30:

* bows a greeting *

I am greatly enjoying your discussion. Here are my own two pieces of mithril:

As for the dream of Frodo sailing over the sea, that sort of dream as a prophetic indicator of a future event does not to my mind qualify as eucatastrophe. Certainly the dream was a consolation ... but I see no evidence that it had a direct cause-and-effect bearing on Frodo's behavior. Thus, the dream was a percursor to eucatastrophe which added depth to the eucatastrophe when it finally did happen.

However, I would say that there are indeed dreams of another nature ... dreams so powerful as to be life-changing. Such dreams qualify as events in and of themselves.

To my mind, a dream qualifies as being a eucatastrophe if it meets the following two criteria as defined in Tolkien's letter # 89:

1) an event causing unexpected joy that brings tears

2) an event bringing a sudden glimpse of truth

I've had such a life-changing dream, about Mirkwood. Before the dream, I hesitantly avoided taking a certain action in my waking life. After the dream, that very day I set about taking that very action with an optimism I had not been gifted with before.

Looking forward to hearing any and all further insight on this fascinating, uplifting, and most worthy topic, [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Olórin

[ August 18, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

08-18-2002, 08:57 AM	#11
Gandalf_theGrey Visionary Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 633	* Steps forth, smoking a conversational bowl of Old Toby. * Hullo, Kuruharan and mark12_30: * bows a greeting * I am greatly enjoying your discussion. Here are my own two pieces of mithril: As for the dream of Frodo sailing over the sea, that sort of dream as a prophetic indicator of a future event does not to my mind qualify as eucatastrophe. Certainly the dream was a consolation ... but I see no evidence that it had a direct cause-and-effect bearing on Frodo's behavior. Thus, the dream was a percursor to eucatastrophe which added depth to the eucatastrophe when it finally did happen. However, I would say that there are indeed dreams of another nature ... dreams so powerful as to be life-changing. Such dreams qualify as events in and of themselves. To my mind, a dream qualifies as being a eucatastrophe if it meets the following two criteria as defined in Tolkien's letter # 89: 1) an event causing unexpected joy that brings tears 2) an event bringing a sudden glimpse of truth I've had such a life-changing dream, about Mirkwood. Before the dream, I hesitantly avoided taking a certain action in my waking life. After the dream, that very day I set about taking that very action with an optimism I had not been gifted with before. Looking forward to hearing any and all further insight on this fascinating, uplifting, and most worthy topic, [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Olórin [ August 18, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]