Frodo's initial delay in leaving the Shire: What does it mean? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 08-23-2002, 08:17 PM

Helen, you are terrific and brilliant.

Wow. I understand now the differences between a liturgical and evangelical tradition, which is very interesting. I would love to be able to connect these two defining characteristics to the names of Christian traditions, so I can carry this deeper understanding of the differences into conversations with actual Christians. It would be nice to understand the mindset in my ever-expanding effort to speak a common language of spirituality with different traditions. (A neccessity when you're from a minority religion, or you have a limited number of people to talk to!) So as not to encourage the very thing I complained about two minutes ago (heh) would you be willing to PM me? If you have time and interest to educate a Buddhist. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The same comparisons exist in Buddhism. The Gelug, and Buddhist traditions from Thailand & Shri Lanka, rely heavily on memorization and scholarly debate, liturgical. My own tradition has a reputation of being wild mystics in the forests - complete with the bone through the hair. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Not always deservedly. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] So your explanation makes a great deal of sense.

Back to Tolkien before either Mr. U or the BW chides us...

Frodo's need for a spiritual companion. Hmm. Good point. I think that he found that to a large extent in his relationship with Bilbo, at least the spiritual portion (without the physical component, thank you very much, though no doubt the slash writers will run amuck with this one). That, I believe, had a lot to do with his need to leave the Shire when Bilbo did.

I am forced to revise my opinion that Sam's ignoring Frodo at a critical time was largely to blame for Frodo not reconnecting with the New Shire. Sam, despite his understanding of his master, was too earthbound and rooted to truly be the spiritual companion Frodo needed. It wasn't just the intellectual differences, as Sam's inherent goodness and 'primordial innocence' clearly struck Frodo as profound and Frodo held him in high regard - higher in fact than he held himself.

But you are right, Frodo needed a companion, someone ring his insights off of, to take his understandings to new levels and into unexpected directions.

It is very probable that this ideally would be a woman, like Goldberry or Galadriel (less so gentle Arwen - they are too much alike). Someone who challenged him, and whom he could challenge as well.

Perhaps one of the elves of Mirkwood? They are shorter I hear tell. lol

-Maril

08-23-2002, 08:17 PM	#31
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Helen, you are terrific and brilliant. Wow. I understand now the differences between a liturgical and evangelical tradition, which is very interesting. I would love to be able to connect these two defining characteristics to the names of Christian traditions, so I can carry this deeper understanding of the differences into conversations with actual Christians. It would be nice to understand the mindset in my ever-expanding effort to speak a common language of spirituality with different traditions. (A neccessity when you're from a minority religion, or you have a limited number of people to talk to!) So as not to encourage the very thing I complained about two minutes ago (heh) would you be willing to PM me? If you have time and interest to educate a Buddhist. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] The same comparisons exist in Buddhism. The Gelug, and Buddhist traditions from Thailand & Shri Lanka, rely heavily on memorization and scholarly debate, liturgical. My own tradition has a reputation of being wild mystics in the forests - complete with the bone through the hair. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Not always deservedly. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] So your explanation makes a great deal of sense. Back to Tolkien before either Mr. U or the BW chides us... Frodo's need for a spiritual companion. Hmm. Good point. I think that he found that to a large extent in his relationship with Bilbo, at least the spiritual portion (without the physical component, thank you very much, though no doubt the slash writers will run amuck with this one). That, I believe, had a lot to do with his need to leave the Shire when Bilbo did. I am forced to revise my opinion that Sam's ignoring Frodo at a critical time was largely to blame for Frodo not reconnecting with the New Shire. Sam, despite his understanding of his master, was too earthbound and rooted to truly be the spiritual companion Frodo needed. It wasn't just the intellectual differences, as Sam's inherent goodness and 'primordial innocence' clearly struck Frodo as profound and Frodo held him in high regard - higher in fact than he held himself. But you are right, Frodo needed a companion, someone ring his insights off of, to take his understandings to new levels and into unexpected directions. It is very probable that this ideally would be a woman, like Goldberry or Galadriel (less so gentle Arwen - they are too much alike). Someone who challenged him, and whom he could challenge as well. Perhaps one of the elves of Mirkwood? They are shorter I hear tell. lol -Maril __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?