How Would You Rate The Silmarillion? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iargwath · 07-09-2002, 01:20 AM

How would you rate Tolkien's Silmarillion and why. A rating out of 10 would be good.
Did it answer all questions Middle Earthsy?

Eowyn of Ithilien · 07-09-2002, 02:51 AM

10...it's powerful, beautiful and contains the tale of Beren and Luthien

Susan Delgado · 07-09-2002, 03:05 AM

Also the tale of Turin Turambar. Those two stries will haunt me for a long time.
I'd probably give it an "8", because it lacked some in clarity, especially in the beginning.

Daniel Telcontar · 07-09-2002, 04:15 AM

I would give it a 9. It is good, really good, with lots of great stories in it, but it is a bit incomplete. Good thing we have Unfinished Tales and Book of Lost Tales then.

Eärendil · 07-09-2002, 08:10 AM

9.5/10. The best I have ever read. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
It´s powerful, beautiful, and it contains so many great stories. I will never get fed up with it... I like it when I get to know about Arda´s creation, the Valar, the different kinds of elves, etc etc...
I could go on for a long time, but I won´t. I think you know what I mean anyway, right?
The only thing that stops me from giving it a 10 is that it´s a bit complicated with the houses and who´s son to who etc.
And another problem with it (doesn´t affect the rate though): It ends. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I really love The Silmarillion!

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 07-09-2002, 08:14 AM

I would give it an 8. It isn't really a story, but the mythology. When it gets more character driven after the elves go back to Beleriand, however, it picks up. It does answer most of the questions about ME

The Silver-shod Muse · 07-09-2002, 10:16 AM

As a mythology, an 8. As an epic of trials and the waxing and waning of the peoples of Middle Earth, namely the elves, a 9.5.

Maédhros · 07-09-2002, 10:31 AM

All of the JRRT books that I read, i think it's the best. I will give it a 10. An 11 would be if JRRT would have finished it before he died.

Lothiriel Silmarien · 07-09-2002, 10:50 AM

A 9.8, I love it!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

mark12_30 · 07-09-2002, 12:50 PM

First time I read it, 6.5. Second time: 9.5. (geneologies and maps are INDISPENSABLE.)

"Fingolfin! NNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

"TURGON! LISTEN TO ULMO!!!"

Third time I expect to cry even harder.

Aiwendil · 07-09-2002, 05:28 PM

I give the published Silmarillion a 9.5. The whole 'Silmarillion' legendarium as found in Silm., UT, and HoMe gets a 10.

07-09-2002, 09:29 PM

Let's say 9.5. It starts out great, but slows down when the Noldor return to Middle-earth. Beren and Turin don't really do much for me in the shortened form (I prefer the Narn and the Geste, respectively). Come to think of it, Turin doesn't do much for me at all. The Ainulindale is my favorite chapter.

Between BoLT and UT, I can say I've read "better" versions of about 1/3 of the stories. But I can forgive the Silm's shortcomings, because it's reasonably complete and close to what Tolkien wanted (before he decided to abandon certain aspects of the creation myths).

It did not answer "all questions Middle-earthsy," nor should it have. The Silm as a history book has a very limited scope, and mostly stays within that. There's very little about, for instance, Avari, or Atani outside Beleriand, or Tom Bombadil.

Orome · 07-09-2002, 09:53 PM

the Silmarillion was amazing. i am going to read it again this summer.

as to all of you people making reference to the other books that are edited by Chris Tolkien, the reason those are "bigger and better" is because they were unedited. they contained everything. dont use them to detract from the silmarillion, which was a resonably completed work

Greyhame · 07-09-2002, 11:19 PM

I'm reading the Sil right now for the first time, and while I agree that it's a wonderful work, charged with scope and beauty, there is no way it's better than LOTR. I give it an 8.5 (with LOTR being a 10).

Iargwath · 07-10-2002, 05:01 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Its much appreciated. I'll be looking into Unfinished Tales for the full dose of everything Middle Earthsy.

Iargwath · 07-10-2002, 05:06 AM

Oh by the way...Whats Unfinished Tales all about? [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Daniel Telcontar · 07-10-2002, 05:11 AM

It is pretty much an overall book. There is feedback on Númenor, Celeborn and Galadriel, The Drúedain, The Istari, The Palantíri, Tuor, Túrin and Nienor, and other things which I have forgotten. It is worth reading, trust me.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Daniel Telcontar ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-11-2002, 01:03 PM

I thought it was fantastic. I wouldn't say The Lord Of The Rings was better, it was different, and I would give them both 10 out of 10.

Finarfin: Oh yes! I am a LEGEND!

Tyler · 11-24-2002, 02:10 PM

The book was great. I would say 8 or 9. YOu must really love Tolkin and history. I dident understand all of it so i must read it again. You do seem to know a lot more about Middle earth once you have read it. Great stories and great information.

Man-of-the-Wold · 11-24-2002, 03:23 PM

Well, for me, I remember when "The Silmarillion's" publication was eagerly anticipated, and my First American Printing a treasure for me to this day. It is great, but simple telling tales gets a little old compared to the rich characters, dialogue and plot of "The Lord of the Rings." I also wish that it could be redone as a complete, unannotated version that incorporates all appropriate parts from at least "The Unfinished Tales" and LotR App. I & II, with the best possible reconcialiation of what are really very few inconcruencies.

I am also beginning to understand the point of many of the most knowledgeable amongst the Barrow-Downers, in that in many cases this version of "The Silmarillion" misses critical improvements and ideas that JRR Tolkien later intended to include, as he better understood the Red Book, of course. Nevertheless, I'm only now about to start HoME III, myself, so that full judgement still waits.

Nevertheless, we can only blame JRR. He did have plenty of time after the LotR to get it together, and his son really had nothing but the current Silm that could be merely edited and made ready for publication as a coherent and internally complete story. I don't think his father gave any one permission to actually rewrite or amend his work And any discrepancies with the LotR are of only the most subjective and tentative variety.

So, despite my love for the "The Silmarillion", I must at this time give it only an Eight (8), with the LotR being of course the 10.

greyhavener · 11-24-2002, 10:48 PM

I consider Lord of the Rings the very best fiction work I've ever read. It gets a 10.
How I rate the Sil depends on whether I look at it as a fictional story or an informational history.

As a fictional work, the Silmarillion probably gets a 7.5. It is somwhat disjointed. Some of the stories like Beren and Luthein are awesome, but many of the characters aren't fleshed out as much as I'd like, especially the Maiar. I want to know these characters better. I could do with more detail in some of the stories as well.

As an informational work I'd give it a 9. All the maps and charts and explanational notes are outstanding. It clearly defines each characters' role in the history of middle earth.

Pallando B.C · 11-24-2002, 11:02 PM

I considered The Silmarillion better than LotR, only because alot of the un-explained names, events e.t.c are explained in the Silmarillion. I also feel frustrated, because when I read LotR it had some sort of special uniqueness and vibe when you read it, and which im sad to say is gone now, since i saw the movie. Plus the Silmarliion still has that

But i give the Silmarillion 9.9 [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

And let me just say it is good to see another Australian on the forum, Iargwath. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Túroch · 11-24-2002, 11:57 PM

It's rating depends on what you are reading it for if you were reading it to gain a better uunderstanding of Middle Earth and some backgrouund on LoTR then I would give it a 10. If you wanted to have an enthralling story then perhaps a 7.5, it's low because the begining is pretty slow and if I didn't have my trusty atlas I would have been lost. It was however, in my view definetly worth the read.

07-09-2002, 01:20 AM	#1
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	How Would You Rate The Silmarillion? How would you rate Tolkien's Silmarillion and why. A rating out of 10 would be good. Did it answer all questions Middle Earthsy? __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

07-09-2002, 02:51 AM	#2
Eowyn of Ithilien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 277	10...it's powerful, beautiful and contains the tale of Beren and Luthien __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

07-09-2002, 03:05 AM	#3
Susan Delgado The Perished Flame Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: behind my eyes Posts: 1,096	Also the tale of Turin Turambar. Those two stries will haunt me for a long time. I'd probably give it an "8", because it lacked some in clarity, especially in the beginning. __________________ "Man as a whole, Man pitted against the universe, have we seen him at all 'til we see that he is like a hero in a fairy tale?"

07-09-2002, 04:15 AM	#4
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	I would give it a 9. It is good, really good, with lots of great stories in it, but it is a bit incomplete. Good thing we have Unfinished Tales and Book of Lost Tales then. __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

07-09-2002, 08:10 AM	#5
Eärendil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles) Posts: 562	9.5/10. The best I have ever read. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] It´s powerful, beautiful, and it contains so many great stories. I will never get fed up with it... I like it when I get to know about Arda´s creation, the Valar, the different kinds of elves, etc etc... I could go on for a long time, but I won´t. I think you know what I mean anyway, right? The only thing that stops me from giving it a 10 is that it´s a bit complicated with the houses and who´s son to who etc. And another problem with it (doesn´t affect the rate though): It ends. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I really love The Silmarillion! __________________ Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.

07-09-2002, 08:14 AM	#6
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I would give it an 8. It isn't really a story, but the mythology. When it gets more character driven after the elves go back to Beleriand, however, it picks up. It does answer most of the questions about ME __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

07-09-2002, 10:16 AM	#7
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	As a mythology, an 8. As an epic of trials and the waxing and waning of the peoples of Middle Earth, namely the elves, a 9.5. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

07-09-2002, 10:31 AM	#8
Maédhros The Kinslayer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 658	All of the JRRT books that I read, i think it's the best. I will give it a 10. An 11 would be if JRRT would have finished it before he died. __________________ "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."

07-09-2002, 10:50 AM	#9
Lothiriel Silmarien Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 829	A 9.8, I love it!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Si vanwa na Romello vanwa Valimar!~~ ~~Now lost, lost to those from the East is Valimar! My LotR page

07-09-2002, 12:50 PM	#10
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	First time I read it, 6.5. Second time: 9.5. (geneologies and maps are INDISPENSABLE.) "Fingolfin! NNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" "TURGON! LISTEN TO ULMO!!!" Third time I expect to cry even harder. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

07-09-2002, 05:28 PM	#11
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I give the published Silmarillion a 9.5. The whole 'Silmarillion' legendarium as found in Silm., UT, and HoMe gets a 10.

07-09-2002, 09:29 PM	#12
Valedain Guest Posts: n/a	Let's say 9.5. It starts out great, but slows down when the Noldor return to Middle-earth. Beren and Turin don't really do much for me in the shortened form (I prefer the Narn and the Geste, respectively). Come to think of it, Turin doesn't do much for me at all. The Ainulindale is my favorite chapter. Between BoLT and UT, I can say I've read "better" versions of about 1/3 of the stories. But I can forgive the Silm's shortcomings, because it's reasonably complete and close to what Tolkien wanted (before he decided to abandon certain aspects of the creation myths). It did not answer "all questions Middle-earthsy," nor should it have. The Silm as a history book has a very limited scope, and mostly stays within that. There's very little about, for instance, Avari, or Atani outside Beleriand, or Tom Bombadil.

07-09-2002, 09:53 PM	#13
Orome Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 195	the Silmarillion was amazing. i am going to read it again this summer. as to all of you people making reference to the other books that are edited by Chris Tolkien, the reason those are "bigger and better" is because they were unedited. they contained everything. dont use them to detract from the silmarillion, which was a resonably completed work

07-09-2002, 11:19 PM	#14
Greyhame Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 42	I'm reading the Sil right now for the first time, and while I agree that it's a wonderful work, charged with scope and beauty, there is no way it's better than LOTR. I give it an 8.5 (with LOTR being a 10). __________________ Poo-tee-weet?

07-10-2002, 05:01 AM	#15
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	Thanks for the feedback guys [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Its much appreciated. I'll be looking into Unfinished Tales for the full dose of everything Middle Earthsy. __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

07-10-2002, 05:06 AM	#16
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	Oh by the way...Whats Unfinished Tales all about? [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

07-10-2002, 05:11 AM	#17
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	It is pretty much an overall book. There is feedback on Númenor, Celeborn and Galadriel, The Drúedain, The Istari, The Palantíri, Tuor, Túrin and Nienor, and other things which I have forgotten. It is worth reading, trust me. [ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Daniel Telcontar ] __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

07-11-2002, 01:03 PM	#18
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I thought it was fantastic. I wouldn't say The Lord Of The Rings was better, it was different, and I would give them both 10 out of 10. Finarfin: Oh yes! I am a LEGEND! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

11-24-2002, 02:10 PM	#19
Tyler Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 37	The book was great. I would say 8 or 9. YOu must really love Tolkin and history. I dident understand all of it so i must read it again. You do seem to know a lot more about Middle earth once you have read it. Great stories and great information. __________________ Not all who wander are lost. -Tolkien

11-24-2002, 03:23 PM	#20
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	Well, for me, I remember when "The Silmarillion's" publication was eagerly anticipated, and my First American Printing a treasure for me to this day. It is great, but simple telling tales gets a little old compared to the rich characters, dialogue and plot of "The Lord of the Rings." I also wish that it could be redone as a complete, unannotated version that incorporates all appropriate parts from at least "The Unfinished Tales" and LotR App. I & II, with the best possible reconcialiation of what are really very few inconcruencies. I am also beginning to understand the point of many of the most knowledgeable amongst the Barrow-Downers, in that in many cases this version of "The Silmarillion" misses critical improvements and ideas that JRR Tolkien later intended to include, as he better understood the Red Book, of course. Nevertheless, I'm only now about to start HoME III, myself, so that full judgement still waits. Nevertheless, we can only blame JRR. He did have plenty of time after the LotR to get it together, and his son really had nothing but the current Silm that could be merely edited and made ready for publication as a coherent and internally complete story. I don't think his father gave any one permission to actually rewrite or amend his work And any discrepancies with the LotR are of only the most subjective and tentative variety. So, despite my love for the "The Silmarillion", I must at this time give it only an Eight (8), with the LotR being of course the 10. __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.

11-24-2002, 10:48 PM	#21
greyhavener Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: austin Posts: 169	I consider Lord of the Rings the very best fiction work I've ever read. It gets a 10. How I rate the Sil depends on whether I look at it as a fictional story or an informational history. As a fictional work, the Silmarillion probably gets a 7.5. It is somwhat disjointed. Some of the stories like Beren and Luthein are awesome, but many of the characters aren't fleshed out as much as I'd like, especially the Maiar. I want to know these characters better. I could do with more detail in some of the stories as well. As an informational work I'd give it a 9. All the maps and charts and explanational notes are outstanding. It clearly defines each characters' role in the history of middle earth. __________________ Do justly, love mercy, walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

11-24-2002, 11:02 PM	#22
Pallando B.C Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Rhûn, Tasmania Posts: 521	I considered The Silmarillion better than LotR, only because alot of the un-explained names, events e.t.c are explained in the Silmarillion. I also feel frustrated, because when I read LotR it had some sort of special uniqueness and vibe when you read it, and which im sad to say is gone now, since i saw the movie. Plus the Silmarliion still has that But i give the Silmarillion 9.9 [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] And let me just say it is good to see another Australian on the forum, Iargwath. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ {JHart} Support The Aussies!

11-24-2002, 11:57 PM	#23
Túroch Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State University Posts: 102	It's rating depends on what you are reading it for if you were reading it to gain a better uunderstanding of Middle Earth and some backgrouund on LoTR then I would give it a 10. If you wanted to have an enthralling story then perhaps a 7.5, it's low because the begining is pretty slow and if I didn't have my trusty atlas I would have been lost. It was however, in my view definetly worth the read. __________________ For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which thay had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness." Ulmo - Lord of waters