Thorondor as a Maia??? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Sharkû*** · 12-04-2003, 03:48 PM

Actually, it is doubtful whether two Ainur spirits could conceive children. We know that it is possible with an Elf from the one example we have, but that is about it. If we suppose such a union could beget offspring, it is still questionable whether these would be raised to about the same level as their parents, or whether they would fall under the category of beasts raised to a higher level, in which case one would have to suppose that the union would have violated an axan anyway.
While it was very likely the case that Ainur spirits conceived children with non-rational beings (without a fea), that would have to be attributed to the bad side only. It also seems to be a practical explanation of the origin of orcs in agreement with the later Morgoth's Ring essays of Umaiarin orcs and orcs evolved from beasts.

In any case, Tolkien's statement that "the same sort of thing may be said of Húan and the Eagles: they were taught language by the Valar, and raised to a higher level - but they still had no fëar" (Myths Transformed) poses the least difficulty in alignment with published texts.

12-04-2003, 03:48 PM	#19
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Actually, it is doubtful whether two Ainur spirits could conceive children. We know that it is possible with an Elf from the one example we have, but that is about it. If we suppose such a union could beget offspring, it is still questionable whether these would be raised to about the same level as their parents, or whether they would fall under the category of beasts raised to a higher level, in which case one would have to suppose that the union would have violated an axan anyway. While it was very likely the case that Ainur spirits conceived children with non-rational beings (without a fea), that would have to be attributed to the bad side only. It also seems to be a practical explanation of the origin of orcs in agreement with the later Morgoth's Ring essays of Umaiarin orcs and orcs evolved from beasts. In any case, Tolkien's statement that "the same sort of thing may be said of Húan and the Eagles: they were taught language by the Valar, and raised to a higher level - but they still had no fëar" (Myths Transformed) poses the least difficulty in alignment with published texts.