How much elf, human and maia? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Manwe · 01-08-2002, 05:24 AM

I wonder if anyone of you know how much Elrond is elf, human and maia. I tried to figure it out by the tabels in Silmarillion and the result is: 3/8 elf, 4/8 human and 1/8 maia. If anyone have correct information I would be very thankfull.
By the way do you know how much Aragorn is, elf, human and maia?

Voronwe · 01-08-2002, 12:27 PM

I believe Elrond is 9/16 Elf, 6/16 Human and 1/16 Maia, assuming Dior's wife Nimloth was an elf.

As for Aragorn, he is so many generations away from Elros that he is almost all human.

-Voronwe

Elrian · 01-08-2002, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voronwe:
<STRONG>I believe Elrond is 9/16 Elf, 6/16 Human and 1/16 Maia, assuming Dior's wife Nimloth was an elf.

As for Aragorn, he is so many generations away from Elros that he is almost all human.

-Voronwe</STRONG>

Nimloth was a kinswoman of Celeborn, so she was an Elf. I got the same
fractions as you did.

Cirdan the Shipwright · 01-10-2002, 09:39 AM

Okay - bonus follow up:

What's the breakdown of Elrond by

Maiar
Vanyar
Noldor
Teleri
1st House Edain
2nd House Edain
3rd House Edain

- Cirdan

Elrian · 01-10-2002, 10:26 PM

I believe you'll find that in another thread in here. Aha that's what that was [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Cirdan the Shipwright · 01-11-2002, 08:25 AM

I already know the answer - just put it out there for fun!

- Cirdan / Maglor

Manwe · 01-18-2002, 05:23 AM

Elf: E=9/(16*n)
Maia: M=1/(16*n)
Human: 100-(E+M)
n>30

This will be Aragorn's blood in % if I'm right, n is generations after Elros.

Voronwe · 01-18-2002, 04:43 PM

Actually, the proportions of Aragorn's blood n generations after Elros would be given by the following. To get the percentage, just multiply by 100:

E = 9/(16 x 2^n)
= 9/2^(n+4)

M = 1/(16 x 2^n)
= 1/2^(n+4)

H = 1 - E - M
= 1 - 10/2^(n+4)

(the ^ symbol means 'to the power of')

This is based on the unreasonable assumption that only one person in each generation from Elros to Aragorn was of Elros' line. Thus, Aragorn was probably a bit more elvish and maia than the above indicate.

Aragorn was more than 60 generations away from Elros. If one were to represent Aragorn's blood by the grains of sand on a beach, just one of those grains would represent his Maia blood. It had been pretty watered-down by then.

-Voronwe

[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ]

Mhoram · 02-28-2002, 10:37 PM

<font size="3">
<pre>
Thingol - Elf = Melian - Maia
|
Luthien - 1/2 elf, 1/2 maia

Luthien = Beren(full man)
|
Dior - 1/4 elf, 1/4 maia, 1/2 man

Dior = Nimloth(full elf)
|
Elwing - 5/8 elf, 1/8 maia, 1/4 man

Idril(full elf) = Tuor(full man)
|
Earendil - 1/2 elf, 1/2 man

Earendil = Elwing
|
Elrond - 9/16 elf, 1/16 maia, 6/16 man

Elrond = Celebrian(full elf)
|
Arwen - 25/32 elf, 1/32 maia, 6/32 man

Arwen = Aragorn(full man)
|
Eldarion - 25/64 elf, 1/64 maia, 38/64 man

</pre>

Now. This all assumes that the maia blood and elven blood works the same way genetics work today. There is question on what happens when an elf chooses mortality, esp. Luthien and Arwen, who both die mortal deaths. I can not answer this question, only offer this line from Thingol to Eldarion without taking into consideration this matter.

*note* Some will mention that Aragorn traces back to Elros, brother of Elrond, but after more than 60 generations without elven blood being introduced to the numerion bloodline, i'd say it's silly not to just call Aragorn full man.

[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Mhoram ]

HerenIstarion · 03-01-2002, 09:36 AM

JRRT states that elven and human hroar, ie bodies, are genetically the same, hence possibility of interbreeding betwenn these races. that's fea, the spirit/soul, which makes the difference. When elven fate is changed to human, the body stays as it was, fea changes. Growing uneasiness of human soul, seeking the way to leave the circles of the world, makes it to leave the body = die.

Mhoram · 03-04-2002, 09:03 PM

Then Dior arose, and about his neck he clasped the Nauglamir; and now he appeared as the fairest of all the children of the world, of threefold race; of the Edain, and of the Eldar, and of the Maiar of the Blessed Realm. -Of The Ruin of Doriath, Silmarilion

01-08-2002, 05:24 AM	#1
Manwe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ilmarin, Taniquetil Posts: 98	How much elf, human and maia? I wonder if anyone of you know how much Elrond is elf, human and maia. I tried to figure it out by the tabels in Silmarillion and the result is: 3/8 elf, 4/8 human and 1/8 maia. If anyone have correct information I would be very thankfull. By the way do you know how much Aragorn is, elf, human and maia? __________________ by the way my name is Manwë, not Manwe

01-08-2002, 12:27 PM	#2
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	I believe Elrond is 9/16 Elf, 6/16 Human and 1/16 Maia, assuming Dior's wife Nimloth was an elf. As for Aragorn, he is so many generations away from Elros that he is almost all human. -Voronwe __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

01-10-2002, 10:26 PM	#5
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	I believe you'll find that in another thread in here. Aha that's what that was [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-18-2002, 05:23 AM	#7
Manwe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ilmarin, Taniquetil Posts: 98	Elf: E=9/(16n) Maia: M=1/(16n) Human: 100-(E+M) n>30 This will be Aragorn's blood in % if I'm right, n is generations after Elros. __________________ by the way my name is Manwë, not Manwe

01-18-2002, 04:43 PM	#8
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	Actually, the proportions of Aragorn's blood n generations after Elros would be given by the following. To get the percentage, just multiply by 100: E = 9/(16 x 2^n) = 9/2^(n+4) M = 1/(16 x 2^n) = 1/2^(n+4) H = 1 - E - M = 1 - 10/2^(n+4) (the ^ symbol means 'to the power of') This is based on the unreasonable assumption that only one person in each generation from Elros to Aragorn was of Elros' line. Thus, Aragorn was probably a bit more elvish and maia than the above indicate. Aragorn was more than 60 generations away from Elros. If one were to represent Aragorn's blood by the grains of sand on a beach, just one of those grains would represent his Maia blood. It had been pretty watered-down by then. -Voronwe [ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ] __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

01-10-2002, 09:39 AM	#4
Cirdan the Shipwright Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 52	Okay - bonus follow up: What's the breakdown of Elrond by Maiar Vanyar Noldor Teleri 1st House Edain 2nd House Edain 3rd House Edain - Cirdan

01-11-2002, 08:25 AM	#6
Cirdan the Shipwright Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 52	I already know the answer - just put it out there for fun! - Cirdan / Maglor

02-28-2002, 10:37 PM	#9
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	<font size="3"> <pre> Thingol - Elf = Melian - Maia \| Luthien - 1/2 elf, 1/2 maia Luthien = Beren(full man) \| Dior - 1/4 elf, 1/4 maia, 1/2 man Dior = Nimloth(full elf) \| Elwing - 5/8 elf, 1/8 maia, 1/4 man Idril(full elf) = Tuor(full man) \| Earendil - 1/2 elf, 1/2 man Earendil = Elwing \| Elrond - 9/16 elf, 1/16 maia, 6/16 man Elrond = Celebrian(full elf) \| Arwen - 25/32 elf, 1/32 maia, 6/32 man Arwen = Aragorn(full man) \| Eldarion - 25/64 elf, 1/64 maia, 38/64 man </pre> Now. This all assumes that the maia blood and elven blood works the same way genetics work today. There is question on what happens when an elf chooses mortality, esp. Luthien and Arwen, who both die mortal deaths. I can not answer this question, only offer this line from Thingol to Eldarion without taking into consideration this matter. note Some will mention that Aragorn traces back to Elros, brother of Elrond, but after more than 60 generations without elven blood being introduced to the numerion bloodline, i'd say it's silly not to just call Aragorn full man. [ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Mhoram ]

03-01-2002, 09:36 AM	#10
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	JRRT states that elven and human hroar, ie bodies, are genetically the same, hence possibility of interbreeding betwenn these races. that's fea, the spirit/soul, which makes the difference. When elven fate is changed to human, the body stays as it was, fea changes. Growing uneasiness of human soul, seeking the way to leave the circles of the world, makes it to leave the body = die. __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

03-04-2002, 09:03 PM	#11
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	Then Dior arose, and about his neck he clasped the Nauglamir; and now he appeared as the fairest of all the children of the world, of threefold race; of the Edain, and of the Eldar, and of the Maiar of the Blessed Realm. -Of The Ruin of Doriath, Silmarilion