Mechanical Monsters at the Fall of Gondolin? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 08-25-2003, 08:44 AM

I must say that I still disagree - I don't see any reason to alter the text of the Tale simply for reasons of clarity. You are right that this is intended (partly, at least) for those who have not read the HoMe. So I do see your point; and your revisions themselves are well done. But I think, first, that the Tale is perfectly clear as it is and second that insofar as it is not clear, that is actually a virtue.

I don't think we ever doubted that in the Tale, the dragons are mechanical. A careful reader (as one must be to get anything out of the Silmarillion) will certainly pick this up. The question that concerned us was not about the nature of the dragons in the old Tale; it was about whether that nature was retained or rejected.

More importantly, I find the descriptions in the Tale to be better for their refusal to call the monsters "machines" at every turn. There is something less scientific and more menacing about the dragons. The Tale's description captures at once the mechanized, industrial aspect of the creatures and the monstrous aspect. I would rather not lose the latter, for (to me at least) much of the appeal of the mechanical dragons is that they are not simply machines - they are mechanical beasts.

As a final point, I would say that clarification of the kind you propose ought at least to wait until after the rest of the changes are finalized. For it's really a stylistic matter, and we are explicitly putting aside such matters for the present phase of the project.

08-25-2003, 08:44 AM	#23
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I must say that I still disagree - I don't see any reason to alter the text of the Tale simply for reasons of clarity. You are right that this is intended (partly, at least) for those who have not read the HoMe. So I do see your point; and your revisions themselves are well done. But I think, first, that the Tale is perfectly clear as it is and second that insofar as it is not clear, that is actually a virtue. I don't think we ever doubted that in the Tale, the dragons are mechanical. A careful reader (as one must be to get anything out of the Silmarillion) will certainly pick this up. The question that concerned us was not about the nature of the dragons in the old Tale; it was about whether that nature was retained or rejected. More importantly, I find the descriptions in the Tale to be better for their refusal to call the monsters "machines" at every turn. There is something less scientific and more menacing about the dragons. The Tale's description captures at once the mechanized, industrial aspect of the creatures and the monstrous aspect. I would rather not lose the latter, for (to me at least) much of the appeal of the mechanical dragons is that they are not simply machines - they are mechanical beasts. As a final point, I would say that clarification of the kind you propose ought at least to wait until after the rest of the changes are finalized. For it's really a stylistic matter, and we are explicitly putting aside such matters for the present phase of the project.