Orcish Fear

[Saulotus]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 86</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Orcish Fear

In the timeline established with the orc/beast/men thing, Men are stated as awaking SECOND of the Children, not third. This is important, as it is also confirmed in OF DWARVES AND MEN. Dwarves are stated as being seen as early as 1250 VY.

The elves marched from Cuivienen in great rains. Men awoke in the great rains on an island and did not leave it until the rains and flooding of the area subsided. This places the awakening of men around 1190 VY or thereabouts. This is enough time for Melkor to discover men, capture and corrupt to his service some (as evidenced in ATHRABETH) before his chaining. On the 144 year conversion that Tolkien develops; this amounts to something like nearly 300 years of worship under Melkor before the siege of Utumno begins.

Of what consequence these rains are to the biblical Noah story is unknown.

Men as orcs does not screw up the timeline except in the traditional SILMARILLION sense.

Elves as orc stock is ruled out with fair certainty by Tolkien finally at the end.

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