Genealogies of the Eldar - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tar Elenion · 02-04-2001, 05:01 PM

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Re: Celeborn and the forum

I don't see that the Letter resolves the basic problem. The Letter is in keeping with the late variant as presented in UT. This variant _overall_ is the problem, in that the 'canonical' (taking as 'canon' those works published by JRRT in his lifetime) LotR and RGEO present Celeborn as a Sinda met by Galadriel in Doriath. As CT notes this change in Celeborn's lineage _may_ be a result of the late variant in which Galadriel departed from Aman seperately rather than with the Noldor (se UT). This variant is noted to come from "philosophical" not "historical" considerations (see UT). But while this change in Galadriel's departure is not specifically contradicted in LotR it is not entirely in keeping with it and it is specifically contradicted by RGEO. The decision then is whether to abide by what has appeared in the published 'canon' (LotR and RGEO), and CT suggests that JRRT would have felt bound by this, or to go with the variant and how to alter the rest to keep it consistant (ie if _you_ choose to change Celeborn into Teleporno, then do _you_ eliminate the references to the prohibition against first cousin marriage (or do you allow for an incestuous and 'illegal' relationship) and how do you justify it with the works that should be taken as 'canon' (ie LotR and RGEO). A similar problem arises with Celebrimbor, there are variants to his ancestry and history, but the LotR as published has him being a Feanorian. The same problem does not arise, for example, with Gil-galad or Amroth both of whom had various lineages but none of which appeared in the published canon.

Tar-Elenion The High Elves had been in the hands of the gods praising and adoring Eru 'the One', Iluvatar the Father of All on the Mountain of Aman</p>

02-04-2001, 05:01 PM	#6
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 369	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 46</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Celeborn and the forum I don't see that the Letter resolves the basic problem. The Letter is in keeping with the late variant as presented in UT. This variant _overall_ is the problem, in that the 'canonical' (taking as 'canon' those works published by JRRT in his lifetime) LotR and RGEO present Celeborn as a Sinda met by Galadriel in Doriath. As CT notes this change in Celeborn's lineage _may_ be a result of the late variant in which Galadriel departed from Aman seperately rather than with the Noldor (se UT). This variant is noted to come from "philosophical" not "historical" considerations (see UT). But while this change in Galadriel's departure is not specifically contradicted in LotR it is not entirely in keeping with it and it is specifically contradicted by RGEO. The decision then is whether to abide by what has appeared in the published 'canon' (LotR and RGEO), and CT suggests that JRRT would have felt bound by this, or to go with the variant and how to alter the rest to keep it consistant (ie if _you_ choose to change Celeborn into Teleporno, then do _you_ eliminate the references to the prohibition against first cousin marriage (or do you allow for an incestuous and 'illegal' relationship) and how do you justify it with the works that should be taken as 'canon' (ie LotR and RGEO). A similar problem arises with Celebrimbor, there are variants to his ancestry and history, but the LotR as published has him being a Feanorian. The same problem does not arise, for example, with Gil-galad or Amroth both of whom had various lineages but none of which appeared in the published canon. Tar-Elenion The High Elves had been in the hands of the gods praising and adoring Eru 'the One', Iluvatar the Father of All on the Mountain of Aman</p> __________________ Tar-Elenion