Question... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Adastrea · 10-28-2002, 04:52 PM

Hello! I don't know newbie jumping straight in with a question! ^.^ I read the books several times over a good while before the film was released, and am snailing my way back through them. In which book do Legolas an Gimli go over the Sea? I could have sworn it was at the end of ROTK, but apparently I'm wrong? (trying to settle heated debate!)

Hanna_Gamgee · 10-28-2002, 05:31 PM

I think it talks about them in the appendix of ROTK.

Aylwen Dreamsong · 10-28-2002, 07:27 PM

Yes. On one of the pages in the appendix it talks of how Gimli and Legolas and Arargorn made a pact that they would stay together until the fellowship broke (I am somewhat shaky on that part though). Legolas I think built a ship and after Aragorn died I think at age 140, something like that? They went across the sea and Gimli was allowed to accompany.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I got it right for the most part? Maybe? No?

-Aylwen

Iarwain · 10-28-2002, 07:35 PM

I believe you're right on the dot, but I never could understand why Gimli was allowed to accompany Legolas to Valinor...

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

Elven-Maiden · 10-28-2002, 07:59 PM

I always thought Gmli was allowed to cross into the Grey Havens because he was part of the fellowship, but more importantly, because he helped mend the conflict between elves and dwarves.

Arwen1858 · 10-28-2002, 10:20 PM

I thought maybe it had to do with Galadriel. Maybe she helped get him in??
Arwen, Princess of Rivendell

Tigerlily Gamgee · 10-28-2002, 10:28 PM

Appendix B:

Quote:

1541
In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over the Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.

I believe that is all that is given.

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Tigerlily Gamgee ]

**lindil** · 10-28-2002, 10:40 PM

Also at the end of the section in the RotK appendices entitled " Durin's Folk" we read

Quote:

Here follows one of the last notes in the Red Book

We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimili Gloin's son with him becuse of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf. If this is true, then it is strange indeed: that a Dwarf should be willing to leave Middle-Earth for any ove, or that the Eldar should receive himor that the Lords of the west should permit it. But it is said that Gimili went also out of desire to see again the beauty of Galadriel; and it may be that she being mighty among the Eldar obtained this grace for him. More cannot be said of this matter.

Pallando B.C · 10-29-2002, 04:48 AM

It is in the Timeline in the appendix

Adastrea · 10-29-2002, 12:19 PM

Thank you! ^.^ That solves it, the person claiming it wasn't in the book got the editions released for the film, and the only Apendix is the tale od Aragorn and Arwen...

Sleeping Beauty · 10-29-2002, 01:30 PM

Then maybe they was looking in the wrong spot because I recently bought the editions that came out for the movie as well as owning ones from the seventies. The new books have the same information as the older copies. Just look a little closer next time. ^_^

Galorme · 10-29-2002, 02:31 PM

No i have an old edition too, and it only has the story of Aragorn and Arwen as well. You get some that only have that bit, and some that only have A and B i believe. Most have all of them (7 or 8 or 9 something like that).

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 10-29-2002, 02:38 PM

All the more reason to shell out the twenty quid or so that they charge for the hard-back single-volume edition, which I did because my venerable paperback was missing most of the appendices and was falling to pieces as well.

Matthew2754 · 10-29-2002, 03:43 PM

Actually, I belive Aragorn died at the age of 240, not 140. Not quite sure though.

greyhavener · 10-29-2002, 04:33 PM

At the very end of ROTK in Appendix B: The Tale of Years: Chronology of the Westlands it says that in 1541 when Aragorn "King Elessar" dies, Legolas and Gimli saled down Anduin and over the sea. They are the last of the Fellowship to leave Middle Earth. I have the single volume edition published 1994.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: greyhavener ]

Diamond18 · 10-29-2002, 06:14 PM

Aragorn was 207 when he died. And Squatter, I've got the one volume hardback edition, too. Not very easy to hold, but it looks impressive. "Ahem, yes, I read great big fat books!" *sighs* Ego...

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Arwen1858 · 10-29-2002, 06:31 PM

ok, I have the smaller paperback versions with pics from the movies on the front. Frodo is on FOTR, Saruman on TTT, and Strider on ROTK. ROTK has appendices A through F, and I think 3 indexes. Is that what it is supposed to have?
Arwen

Westerly Wizard · 10-29-2002, 06:33 PM

As seen in the posts of those who quoted Appendix A and B, it is only stated that "it is said" Gimli went West, so there is not certainty to it to begin with, but it can be taken as accurate. Also, In Letter 154 Tolkien writes that Gimli went to Aman "as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel."

I don't really think that Legolas had the ability to get Gimli into the west, but the rekindled friendship between dwarf and elf was an important feat that may have helped influence the Lords of the West. Galadriel was much more important than Legolas, but she had also undergone a falling out with the Noldor (In Letter 246 Tolkien writes that Galadriel (whose lock of hair Gimli recieved as a gift) wouldn't have influence because of her staying in Middle-Earth, but this in reference to Frodo's departure. She would have regained the Valar's favor after her return to Aman, although this might not mean enough influence).

Also, being Gandalf's friend would have helped him earn the favor of the Valar, as he is of fundamentally the same race, although less powerful as a Maia. Furthermore, after his return from death he is given pretty much a role as the messenger of Eru, who sent him back and enlarged his role in Middle-Earth.

10-28-2002, 04:52 PM	#1
Adastrea Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 31	Question... Hello! I don't know newbie jumping straight in with a question! ^.^ I read the books several times over a good while before the film was released, and am snailing my way back through them. In which book do Legolas an Gimli go over the Sea? I could have sworn it was at the end of ROTK, but apparently I'm wrong? (trying to settle heated debate!) __________________ "Hail Eärendil, brightest of angels, over Middle Earth sent to men."

10-28-2002, 05:31 PM	#2
Hanna_Gamgee Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Shire section of Antarctica Posts: 37	I think it talks about them in the appendix of ROTK. __________________ Aragorn: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.

10-28-2002, 07:27 PM	#3
Aylwen Dreamsong The Melody of Misery Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Island of Conclusions (You get there by jumping!)... Posts: 1,147	Yes. On one of the pages in the appendix it talks of how Gimli and Legolas and Arargorn made a pact that they would stay together until the fellowship broke (I am somewhat shaky on that part though). Legolas I think built a ship and after Aragorn died I think at age 140, something like that? They went across the sea and Gimli was allowed to accompany. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I got it right for the most part? Maybe? No? -Aylwen __________________ ...Come down now, they'll say. But everything looks perfect from far away - Come down now! But we'll stay.

10-28-2002, 07:35 PM	#4
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	I believe you're right on the dot, but I never could understand why Gimli was allowed to accompany Legolas to Valinor... [ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Iarwain ] __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

10-28-2002, 07:59 PM	#5
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	I always thought Gmli was allowed to cross into the Grey Havens because he was part of the fellowship, but more importantly, because he helped mend the conflict between elves and dwarves. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

10-28-2002, 10:20 PM	#6
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	I thought maybe it had to do with Galadriel. Maybe she helped get him in?? Arwen, Princess of Rivendell __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

10-29-2002, 04:48 AM	#9
Pallando B.C Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Rhûn, Tasmania Posts: 521	It is in the Timeline in the appendix __________________ {JHart} Support The Aussies!

10-29-2002, 12:19 PM	#10
Adastrea Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 31	Thank you! ^.^ That solves it, the person claiming it wasn't in the book got the editions released for the film, and the only Apendix is the tale od Aragorn and Arwen... __________________ "Hail Eärendil, brightest of angels, over Middle Earth sent to men."

10-29-2002, 01:30 PM	#11
Sleeping Beauty Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Somewhere between the back of the chair and the monitor Posts: 115	Then maybe they was looking in the wrong spot because I recently bought the editions that came out for the movie as well as owning ones from the seventies. The new books have the same information as the older copies. Just look a little closer next time. ^_^ __________________ "If I knew all of the answers, I'd run for God." ~ Klinger: MAS*H

10-29-2002, 02:31 PM	#12
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	No i have an old edition too, and it only has the story of Aragorn and Arwen as well. You get some that only have that bit, and some that only have A and B i believe. Most have all of them (7 or 8 or 9 something like that). __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

10-29-2002, 02:38 PM	#13
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	All the more reason to shell out the twenty quid or so that they charge for the hard-back single-volume edition, which I did because my venerable paperback was missing most of the appendices and was falling to pieces as well. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

10-29-2002, 03:43 PM	#14
Matthew2754 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 22	Actually, I belive Aragorn died at the age of 240, not 140. Not quite sure though.

10-29-2002, 04:33 PM	#15
greyhavener Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: austin Posts: 169	At the very end of ROTK in Appendix B: The Tale of Years: Chronology of the Westlands it says that in 1541 when Aragorn "King Elessar" dies, Legolas and Gimli saled down Anduin and over the sea. They are the last of the Fellowship to leave Middle Earth. I have the single volume edition published 1994. [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: greyhavener ] __________________ Do justly, love mercy, walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

10-29-2002, 06:14 PM	#16
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Aragorn was 207 when he died. And Squatter, I've got the one volume hardback edition, too. Not very easy to hold, but it looks impressive. "Ahem, yes, I read great big fat books!" sighs Ego... [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-29-2002, 06:31 PM	#17
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	ok, I have the smaller paperback versions with pics from the movies on the front. Frodo is on FOTR, Saruman on TTT, and Strider on ROTK. ROTK has appendices A through F, and I think 3 indexes. Is that what it is supposed to have? Arwen __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

10-29-2002, 06:33 PM	#18
Westerly Wizard Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 72	As seen in the posts of those who quoted Appendix A and B, it is only stated that "it is said" Gimli went West, so there is not certainty to it to begin with, but it can be taken as accurate. Also, In Letter 154 Tolkien writes that Gimli went to Aman "as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel." I don't really think that Legolas had the ability to get Gimli into the west, but the rekindled friendship between dwarf and elf was an important feat that may have helped influence the Lords of the West. Galadriel was much more important than Legolas, but she had also undergone a falling out with the Noldor (In Letter 246 Tolkien writes that Galadriel (whose lock of hair Gimli recieved as a gift) wouldn't have influence because of her staying in Middle-Earth, but this in reference to Frodo's departure. She would have regained the Valar's favor after her return to Aman, although this might not mean enough influence). Also, being Gandalf's friend would have helped him earn the favor of the Valar, as he is of fundamentally the same race, although less powerful as a Maia. Furthermore, after his return from death he is given pretty much a role as the messenger of Eru, who sent him back and enlarged his role in Middle-Earth. __________________ "He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure."