Arwen’s pendant: Does it symbolize her immortality?

[Tarien Ithil]

I don’t know about the rest of you guys but I have the impression that Arwen’s pendant shows that she’s immortal.
I’m not sure if it may be only a jewel she wears or something? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Please reply,

Oh, and take care [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Tarien Ithil

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I have read this somewhere too, but I believe it was a movie site, and those tend to be inacurate. Does it actually say in any of the books?

~Menelien

Edit: I mean the non LotR books, as I don't believe that it was mentioned in there [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ May 21, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[Morwen Tindomerel]

Are we talking about the Evenstar, (the pendant given to Aragorn in the movie which has no existence in the Book) or about the 'white jewel' Queen Arwen gives to Frodo, (which may turn out to be the Evenstar in Jackson's movie - we don't know yet).

Jackson is on record as saying the Evenstar does indeed represent Arwen's immortality, as he invented it his word goes.

The white jewel on the other hand seems to hold some kind of magic for it comforts Frodo when the dark memories and pain from his wounds overcome him. But there is no reason to believe it is anything more than an Elven talisman with healing properties.

[Gorwingel]

Arwen pendant was not in the books so this should probably be placed in the movies. And besides the stone that Arwen gave to Frodo was after all the events of the War of the Ring had passed, completely different from the Evenstar.

But the Evenstar does represent her immortality, but if Aragorn wears it, it does not make him immortal or anything like that. It is basically a symbol of Arwen's importance to the Elvish community.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I read somewhere that it was slightly different: not a "symbol of her importance to the Elvish community", but more or less a sign that she was giving her immortality away, and giving it to Aragorn, which could explain the line "you cannot give me this" in TTT.

~Menelien

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

I was always under the impression (although it may be erroneous as it comes from no authority higher than myself) that Arwen's gift of the jewel to Frodo was what secured his passage on the white ship. Let me quote it here:

But the Queen Arwen said: 'A gift I will give you. For I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now when he departs to the havens; for mine is the choice of Luthien, and as she so have I chosen, both the sweet and the bitter. But in my stead you shall go, Ring-bearer, when the time comes, and if you then desire it. If your hurts grieve you still and the memory of your burden is heavy, then you may pass into the West, until all your wounds and weariness are healed. But wear this now in memory of Elfstone and Evenstar with whom your life has been woven!'

And she took a white gem like a star that lay upon her breast hanging upon a silver chain, and she set the chain about Frodo's neck. 'When the memory of the fear and the darkness troubles you,' she said, 'this will bring you aid.'

I guess there isn't any direct link between the two subjects, but they seem closely interwoven. Especially Arwen's descriptions of Frodo's pain bring the two paragraphs together, even though they don't have a common subject.

Sophia

[Findegil]

About what artefact are we talking here?

I don't remember that Arwen gave any sign to Aragorn in the book at all. (The fitting gift would have been a slender Silver ring as a sign their betrothal.)

The stone given to Aragorn in the book was the pandant of his owne name and was a given him by Galadriel. (I missed that one in the movie.)

Arwen gave a single whit gem on a silver change to Frodo as we all have read just a sekond ago. But i dopt if that was the bording pass for the grey ship. And I can't remeber that it was ever called Evenstar, was it?

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: Don't ask me ask me about the movie! They do what they want there and it all not much Tolkien like.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Actually, a careful reading of the passage will show you that the Elessar did come (indirectly) from Arwen. Here's the passage:

Then she (Galadriel) lifted from her lap a great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings; and as she held it up the gem flashed like the sun shining through the leaves of spring. 'This stone I gave to Celebrian my daughter, and she to hers; and now it comes to you as a token of hope. In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!'

Then Aragorn took the stone and pinned the brooch upon his breast, and those who saw him wondered; for they had not marked before how tall and kingly he stood, and it seemed to them that many years of toil had fallen from his shoulders. 'For the gifts that you have given me I thank you,' he said, 'O Lady of Lorien of whom were sprung Celebrian and Arwen Evenstar. What praise could I say more?'

So, the stone was originally Galadriel's but passed down to Celebrian, and then to Arwen. Galadriel is simply the deliverer of this gift, not it's giver.

So yes, Arwen did give Aragorn a jewel (though not a necklace, a brooch). But I believe the pendant we were discussing was the white jewel she gave to Frodo.

Sophia

[Frodo Baggins]

You are forgetting that in the appendicies of LOTR in the sumarry of the tale of Aragorn and Arwen, Aragon gives Arwen the ring of Barahir that Elrond had given him when they met in Lorien that one time.

[Tarien Ithil]

Sorry about the confusion [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] I'm talking about the pendant Arwen gives to Aragorn in Imladris. Isn't that the Evenstar, that silver pendant?

[Lyra Greenleaf]

That's PJs made-up "Lets make it easy for non-lotr fans to understand that she's giving something up for/to Aragorn" thing, as far as I know. The 2 necklaces linked to her in the book are the ones Sophia has described- the one given to Frodo and the "Elessar". PJ combined the 2 in true Hollywood fashion!

[Tarien Ithil]

Yea, OK, thanks Lyra and Sophia. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] That solved my problem! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Finwe]

I think that Peter Jackson gave many of the wrong impressions in the movie. I think that in both book and movie, the white jewel represents the gift of Arwen's heart. She gives it to Aragorn in love, and later, she gives it to Frodo in compassion, understanding that he will need healing that only Valinor can provide.

[Tarien Ithil]

Yea, I agree with you, Finwe. PJ does muddle things up a little (sure had me confused!) [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

[Lily Ahern]

The pendent does not exsist in the books but I think that p.j put it in to show that she was different, that she was immortal like you said. But then that is only my opion.

[Tarien Ithil]

Yes, Lily, your opinion is the same as mine. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I agree with you. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Manardariel]

Well, I always though the MoviePendant, and the BookJewel may turn out as the same thing. Arwen has givin up her immortality, but she can´t give it to Aragorn, becuase he´s a king of men. But maybe she´s giving it to Frodo sort of as a "Tiket" to Valinor. Hobbits aren´t immortal, but maybe Arwen -by passing her pendant on- can give a part of that immortality to Frodo so he can enter the Blessed Realm.

[barandilwen]

i dont think that the pendant symbolizes her immortality in the books because he didn't give any neclace to aragorn, right? and i think that arwen gave a similar neclace to frodo before he left.
but in the movie, it symbolizes her immortality, the thing is that i cant understand why the pendant symbolizes her immortality for the other elves doesn't have anything to symbolize theirs.