Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

He still shares their blood. Or are saying he doesn't anymore?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

He still shares their blood. Or are saying he doesn't anymore?

Their blood, not their life. *shrug*

[Urwen]

Besides, are you saying they want to live as thralls?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Besides, are you saying they want to live as thralls?

We don't have to speculate - from Children of Hurin we have their own words:

Originally Posted by Aerin

Ill though my life was, you have brought death to me with your violence.

Turin sparked off a revolt that stood zero chance of freeing his country. He directly caused the death of the woman leading the people of Dor-lomin in his absence. He doesn't even seem to do it through a misguided effort to save them - he forces a confrontation out of pride, gets angry with Brodda for insulting his mother, and lashes out.

What did the people of Dor-lomin actually want? Let's ask Asgon this time:

Originally Posted by Asgon

Many a man of arms misreads patience and quiet. She did much good among us at much cost. Her heart was not faint, and patience will break at the last.

Sounds like he wanted support and hope, not anger and despair.

Helping Dor-lomin was actually within Turin's power. He could have remade the Outlaws and directed them against the Easterlings, making the land a danger for them, drawing on his learning as a leader of Nargothrond to forge the Hadorians into a secret army. That might have worked! Killing one man and then running away wouldn't.

EDIT: We see this same story play out with Thorin Oakenshield. "The King under the Mountain has returned! Oh - all he's actually done is provoke the monster threatening us, and now everything is on fire." Aragorn, meanwhile, returns to a kingdom whose enemy is already as provoked as he can get, comes with an army and a plan, and defers to the existing Gondorian leaders until pressured by Imrahil to claim his title.

hS

[Urwen]

The Outlaws were all dead at the time, so no, he couldn't have. At least not with the originals. Who could he have used, then?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The Outlaws were all dead at the time, so no, he couldn't have. At least not with the originals. Who could he have used, then?

The Outlaws were an idea, not specific people - I doubt the Hadorians would have wanted the original gang of murderers and worse in their lands. But:

Originally Posted by Children of Hurin

Now some of the hardiest that could endure the winter stayed with Turin and led him by strange paths to a refuge in the mountains, a cave known to outlaws and runagates; and some store of food was hidden there.

"Runagate" means someone who has run away - in this context, probably runaway slaves. There was an outlaw network in Dor-lomin. The people with Turin at this point are "all the rebels that had the strength"; I'm pretty sure they're literally just all the surviving slaves from Brodda's hall, there's no indication of an outside force of rebels. Which means this cave is known to slaves held by the ruler of the land - the one you'd expect to have the highest security! It seems like it was probably fairly widely known then, and peaceful, obedient thralls don't know where the runaway slaves and revolutionaries live.

It really sounds like they had a whole underground operating there - a massive operation smuggling Hadorians to the mountains, then either setting them up as outlaws or helping them across to Brethil. It might even have been led by Aerin; at least she knew about it. There was a whole network Turin could have tapped into and led, to at the least cause major problems for Brodda and his mob.

(The ultimate goal wouldn't be to free Dor-lomin; it's too close to Angband, and unprotected by the Eldar. The best outcome would be to drive the Easterlings out, and then evacuate the country to Brethil before the Orcs turned up.)

(Weirdly, Turin leaves Dor-lomin thinking of his three choices: to stay and help them, to find Finduilas, or to go after Morwen. He decides to leave Morwen in Doriath, finds Finduilas dead... and then just sort of forgets about Dor-lomin in favour of hanging out with the Haladin until Nienor shows up.)

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The Outlaws were an idea, not specific people - I doubt the Hadorians would have wanted the original gang of murderers and worse in their lands. But:



"Runagate" means someone who has run away - in this context, probably runaway slaves. There was an outlaw network in Dor-lomin. The people with Turin at this point are "all the rebels that had the strength"; I'm pretty sure they're literally just all the surviving slaves from Brodda's hall, there's no indication of an outside force of rebels. Which means this cave is known to slaves held by the ruler of the land - the one you'd expect to have the highest security! It seems like it was probably fairly widely known then, and peaceful, obedient thralls don't know where the runaway slaves and revolutionaries live.

It really sounds like they had a whole underground operating there - a massive operation smuggling Hadorians to the mountains, then either setting them up as outlaws or helping them across to Brethil. It might even have been led by Aerin; at least she knew about it. There was a whole network Turin could have tapped into and led, to at the least cause major problems for Brodda and his mob.

(The ultimate goal wouldn't be to free Dor-lomin; it's too close to Angband, and unprotected by the Eldar. The best outcome would be to drive the Easterlings out, and then evacuate the country to Brethil before the Orcs turned up.)

(Weirdly, Turin leaves Dor-lomin thinking of his three choices: to stay and help them, to find Finduilas, or to go after Morwen. He decides to leave Morwen in Doriath, finds Finduilas dead... and then just sort of forgets about Dor-lomin in favour of hanging out with the Haladin until Nienor shows up.)

hS

True. I always wondered why he didn't bring the men of Brethil over to help...

However, it is possible to free Dor-Lomin, and the Beleriand as a whole too. All one needs is the element of surprise, and a champion whose destiny is to kill Morgoth himself. And guess who has both of those? People of Dor-Lomin do!

And I am now imagining a guerilla force ambushing Orcs and then retreating to safety, until their numbers are low enough that the remaining ones could be picked off. Then a small force infiltrates Angband and distracts the beasties still left there, while a slightly larger force, led by Turin, confronts Morgoth himself, and Turin stabs him dead. Throw in some Ents as back-up and Morgoth won't stand a chance.