The Unions of Elves and Men - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 11-02-2022, 11:13 AM

I don't think the two cites are really contradictory, given Tolkien's old-school views: marrying a Man necessarily meant remaining with him/her in Middle-earth, and therefore staying behind when Elrond departed. I don't think it's necessary to pinpoint a moment when a "mortality switch" was flipped; Arwen does not appear to have died of anything except grief, and that essentially voluntarily.

Galin · 11-09-2022, 01:20 PM

Hmm. I found components to WCH's statement above: for example (stated by Manwe) in the conclusion to Quenta Silmarillion [HME 5]: "Now all those who have the blood of Mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them; . . ."

Then there's letter 131 [to Waldman]: "The doom or gift of God, of mortality, the gods of course cannot abrogate, but the Numenoreans have a great span of life."

Although I too, at least feel like it was stated as William writes it above, even if I can't find it.

Anyway . . .

11-02-2022, 11:13 AM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	I don't think the two cites are really contradictory, given Tolkien's old-school views: marrying a Man necessarily meant remaining with him/her in Middle-earth, and therefore staying behind when Elrond departed. I don't think it's necessary to pinpoint a moment when a "mortality switch" was flipped; Arwen does not appear to have died of anything except grief, and that essentially voluntarily. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

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11-09-2022, 01:20 PM	#2
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,036	Hmm. I found components to WCH's statement above: for example (stated by Manwe) in the conclusion to Quenta Silmarillion [HME 5]: "Now all those who have the blood of Mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them; . . ." Then there's letter 131 [to Waldman]: "The doom or gift of God, of mortality, the gods of course cannot abrogate, but the Numenoreans have a great span of life." Although I too, at least feel like it was stated as William writes it above, even if I can't find it. Anyway . . .