"Bad Guy" Trivia - Page 17 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Urwen · 04-30-2019, 09:31 AM

Who created the weapon which would eventually end the life of Morgoth?

(Hint: Said weapon is wielded by Gorthol)

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Who created the weapon which would eventually end the life of Morgoth?

(Hint: Said weapon is wielded by Gorthol)

Originally Eol, and later the smiths of Nargothrond - I don't think there are any known by name. Might have been Turin himself, though I don't know how he would have learnt the art.

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Originally Eol, and later the smiths of Nargothrond - I don't think there are any known by name. Might have been Turin himself, though I don't know how he would have learnt the art.

hS

Since this is 'bad guy trivia', Eol is the one I had in mind.

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 05:47 AM

So, my turn?

Treating the cursed sword itself as a "bad guy":

The answer I gave above is wrong. Why?

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 05:50 AM

Now that's a difficult one. It is known that Gurthang is the sword to kill Morgoth (according to prophecy of Mandos), and it is known that Eol is the original owner, and it's known that Turin is its wielder and that he'd do the deed. Based on these facts, I see no reason why you would think the answer you gave is wrong....

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Now that's a difficult one. It is known that Gurthang is the sword to kill Morgoth, and it is known that Eol is the original owner, and it's known that Turin is its wielder and that he'd do the deed. Based on these facts, I see no reason why you would think the answer you gave is wrong....

All of those things are true - but one of them is also false.

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 05:53 AM

Unless you mean that Turin won't be the one who kill Morgoth, everything I've said is true.

Maybe it has something to do with the disloyalty of sword itself?

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Unless you mean that Turin won't be the one who kill Morgoth, everything I've said is true.

No, I won't quibble that point, and I agree that everything you said is true. But one of your points is also wrong.

hS

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Maybe it has something to do with the disloyalty of sword itself?

Mm... no, I don't think so (and if so, only at an extreme tangent, as in 'said disloyalty led to the circumstances that make me wrong').

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 05:57 AM

Do you mean to say that Eol is not the original maker?

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Do you mean to say that Eol is not the original maker?

Eol is the original maker of Anglachel, certainly, which was reforged in Nargothrond into Gurthang. So in a sense, the smiths of Nargothrond are the makers of Gurthang.

But I said that in my answer. So why was I wrong?

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:03 AM

I don't know. You said that each of the three main points are true, yet that the statement consisting of those three points is false. And considering you said all three points are true, your answer can't be false.

Unless there is some obscure variable I'm missing.....

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:06 AM

Wait.....since Anglachel was reforged into Gurthang, and Gurthang is the weapon that will slay Morgoth, that means that Eol didn't make the weapon which will kill Morgoth. Because since Anglachel was reforged, Anglachel and Gurthang are now different swords.

(That was a bit wordy, but you get the point...)

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I don't know. You said that each of the three main points are true, yet that the statement consisting of those three points is false. And considering you said all three points are true, your answer can't be false.

It's worse than that - while each of your three points is true, one of the three is also false.

A correct - though not full - answer to your original trivia question might help, and that answer is: No-one.

hS

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Wait.....since Anglachel was reforged into Gurthang, and Gurthang is the weapon that will slay Morgoth, that means that Eol didn't make the weapon which will kill Morgoth. Because since Anglachel was reforged, Anglachel and Gurthang are now different swords.

(That was a bit wordy, but you get the point...)

This is true! You're three-quarters of the way there - because I did give 'the smiths of Nargothrond' as an answer. So why was that still wrong...?

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

This is true! You're three-quarters of the way there - because I did give 'the smiths of Nargothrond' as an answer. So why was that still wrong...?

hS

You mean that Eol didn't make the sword at all?

This is quickly becoming a mystery festa....

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

You mean that Eol didn't make the sword at all?

This is quickly becoming a mystery festa....

Eol made Anglachel, and Anglachel was reforged into Gurthang.

And then...?

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:12 AM

From Tolkien Gateway:

Quote:

Eöl was a skilled craftsman and a master sword-smith. Among his greatest works were the two swords made from the iron of a meteorite, Anglachel and Anguirel. Anglachel he gave to Thingol as a begrudged payment for dwelling in Nan Elmoth, and it would later become the sword borne by Beleg, and after him, Túrin Turambar. Eöl also devised the strong yet supple, jet-black metal known as galvorn, from which he forged the armour that he used when travelling abroad.

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Eol made Anglachel, and Anglachel was reforged into Gurthang.

And then...?

hS

Oh, you meant that?

Well, technically it is still true.

After all, if Turin could come back to finish the job, then so could Gurthang.

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Oh, you meant that?

Well, technically it is still true.

After all, if Turin could come back to finish the job, then so could Gurthang.

It sounds like you might have thought up the right answer; all you need to do is say it.

Why does Gurthang need to come back?

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Why does Gurthang need to come back?

hS

Because:

Quote:

but it will be by the hand of Túrin that finally death and utter defeat will be dealt to Melkor. Túrin will run his black sword Gurthang (Iron of Death) through Melkor's dark heart, thus avenging the Children of Húrin

It's specifically noted that Turin will use Gurthang, rather than some random sword, to finish the job.

That's why.

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Because:

It's specifically noted that Turin will use Gurthang, rather than some random sword, to finish the job.

That's why.

Yes, Gurthang will be used to kill Morgoth; but why does it need to come back? Or, what does it need to come back from, that might explain why I'm still insisting my answer was wrong?

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:25 AM

All right. It was broken after it took Turin's life. Is that what you were going for?

Either way, the answer remains true. Turin will slay Morgoth with Gurthang, which was made by Eol. And that is the way of it.

Huinesoron · 05-02-2019, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

All right. It was broken after it took Turin's life. Is that what you were going for?

Either way, the answer remains true. Turin will slay Morgoth with Gurthang, which was made by Eol. And that is the way of it.

Correct. Gurthang is currently in (at least) two pieces; it will need reforging before it can be used to kill anyone (barring Narsil-esque finger shenanigans). So while Anglachel was made by Eol, and reforged (for some reason - it wasn't broken!) by the Nargothrondrim - Gurthang II, the sword that will kill Morgoth, has yet to be forged from the pieces of the original.

Quibbly, I know, but I don't think it unreasonable to call Narsil and Anduril different swords, the latter being 'created' in Rivendell.

(My guess is that Aule will probably attend to the reforging of Gurthang personally; perhaps he can do something about that curse of Eol's while he's at it. Though they might always give Feanor the job...)

hS

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Though they might always give Feanor the job...

hS

I hope so, that way my statement that it was made by a bad guy will remain true.

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 06:39 AM

I think I will take a short nap before continuing this.

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 08:15 AM

Which two characters share a name?

Galadriel55 · 05-02-2019, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Which two characters share a name?

Gothmog? The Balrog and the Third Age battle commander?

Urwen · 05-02-2019, 08:28 AM

Yup.

Galadriel55 · 05-02-2019, 08:33 PM

A name shared by two villains. To follow that up, what name is shared by two villainous objects?

Nerwen · 05-02-2019, 11:32 PM

Grond?

Galadriel55 · 05-03-2019, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Grond?

Le voila. Proceed.

Nerwen · 05-03-2019, 06:33 AM

How about- a name shared by a villainous object and a non-villainous location?

Galadriel55 · 05-03-2019, 07:12 AM

Ok, silly answer time... SCARY!

Nerwen · 05-03-2019, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ok, silly answer time... SCARY!

Oh, you mean the famous Scary Bad Thing and the equally renowned Scary but Okay Place?

Galadriel55 · 05-03-2019, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, you mean the famous Scary Bad Thing and the equally renowned Scary but Okay Place?

Of course! The village in the Shire that's just as renowned as that scary thing the bad guys used.

There's Orthanc-stone and Orthanc-rock, but I wouldn't call the place entirely innocent. And they are not identical anyways.

Nerwen · 05-03-2019, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Of course! The village in the Shire that's just as renowned as that scary thing the bad guys used.

Well, perhaps not quite as renowned, but Morgulknifesville does boast one of the prettiest little picnic-grounds in the East Farthing!

Quote:

There's Orthanc-stone and Orthanc-rock, but I wouldn't call the place entirely innocent. And they are not identical anyways.

I wouldn't call it even slightly innocent, after Saruman took up residence. So no, not those two.

Galadriel55 · 05-03-2019, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I wouldn't call it even slightly innocent, after Saruman took up residence. So no, not those two.

Well that's a shame, cause all of my ideas seem to lead back to the various names of Saruman's abode (mostly iron- and fang- related stuff). Hint please?

Nerwen · 05-03-2019, 10:56 AM

Hmmn. Hints... let's see...

1. [---] is the actual name of the place, but only one of many given the object.
2. Both place and object are very important to the history of Arda, but the object is much better known in the real world.

William Cloud Hicklin · 05-03-2019, 11:02 AM

The One Ring, and the Ring of Doom in Valinor?

Edit: the former was even called the "Ring of Doom" by the minstrel at the Field of Cormallen)

04-30-2019, 09:31 AM	#641
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Who created the weapon which would eventually end the life of Morgoth? (Hint: Said weapon is wielded by Gorthol) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 05:50 AM	#645
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Now that's a difficult one. It is known that Gurthang is the sword to kill Morgoth (according to prophecy of Mandos), and it is known that Eol is the original owner, and it's known that Turin is its wielder and that he'd do the deed. Based on these facts, I see no reason why you would think the answer you gave is wrong.... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 05:53 AM	#647
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Unless you mean that Turin won't be the one who kill Morgoth, everything I've said is true. Maybe it has something to do with the disloyalty of sword itself? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 05:57 AM	#650
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Do you mean to say that Eol is not the original maker? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 06:03 AM	#652
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I don't know. You said that each of the three main points are true, yet that the statement consisting of those three points is false. And considering you said all three points are true, your answer can't be false. Unless there is some obscure variable I'm missing..... __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 05:47 AM	#644
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,957	So, my turn? Treating the cursed sword itself as a "bad guy": The answer I gave above is wrong. Why? hS

05-02-2019, 06:06 AM	#653
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Wait.....since Anglachel was reforged into Gurthang, and Gurthang is the weapon that will slay Morgoth, that means that Eol didn't make the weapon which will kill Morgoth. Because since Anglachel was reforged, Anglachel and Gurthang are now different swords. (That was a bit wordy, but you get the point...) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 06:25 AM	#663
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	All right. It was broken after it took Turin's life. Is that what you were going for? Either way, the answer remains true. Turin will slay Morgoth with Gurthang, which was made by Eol. And that is the way of it. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 06:39 AM	#666
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I think I will take a short nap before continuing this. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 08:15 AM	#667
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Which two characters share a name? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 08:28 AM	#669
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Yup. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

05-02-2019, 08:33 PM	#670
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,493	A name shared by two villains. To follow that up, what name is shared by two villainous objects? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

05-02-2019, 11:32 PM	#671
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Grond? __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

05-03-2019, 06:33 AM	#673
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	How about- a name shared by a villainous object and a non-villainous location? __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

05-03-2019, 07:12 AM	#674
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,493	Ok, silly answer time... SCARY! __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

05-03-2019, 10:56 AM	#679
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Hmmn. Hints... let's see... 1. [---] is the actual name of the place, but only one of many given the object. 2. Both place and object are very important to the history of Arda, but the object is much better known in the real world. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

05-03-2019, 11:02 AM	#680
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	The One Ring, and the Ring of Doom in Valinor? Edit: the former was even called the "Ring of Doom" by the minstrel at the Field of Cormallen) __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 05-03-2019 at 12:04 PM.

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