Why Imrazor the Numenorean?

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Hmm. HoME V contains a slightly longer version of Manwe's judgement on Earendil and Elwing than is found in the Silm (emphasis mine):



What's interesting is that Manwe explicitly states that any with mortal blood are mortal, unless he says otherwise. That means that Dior, Elured, and Elurin were fully mortal, and that Earendil and Elwing were mortal until they reached Valinor (which may explain the Numenorean idea that going to Valinor makes you immortal). Mithrellas' children would also be mortal.

But does this apply to the final Silm? I don't think its removal was a Christopher edit - I think it was a change made by Tolkien himself. But it could still just have been for conciseness... or to avoid any undue quibbles of 'then why did Arwen get to be mortal?'. Because the text as written is explicit: her father gets a choice, she doesn't. She'd either be an Elf (if 'under which kindred they shall be judged' indicates that they fully become that kindred) or mortal (if 'all those who have the blood of mortal Men' still covers her), but not get to choose between.

hS

That's a fantastic quote. It's pretty clear, in actual conditions, and I'd be curious to hear from Morthoron about it. It seems, doesn't it, that the choice goes to a son. So, though I am wondering if that was because we had Elrond and Elros around by then?

In any case, it's interesting then that we have an exception, or some form of variation to the Decree. Perhaps, the Twins (did they die in the forest?) were, by prayer or ritual, in a Communion with Manwe going to get the same Choice as Arwen?

It's a great quotation, so I'm going to add the post you cited, into a summary thread.

Cheers
Ivrieniel